Remington's J-Lock?
- Thread starter BOBTAILS
- Start date
I dont know what the problem is with the looks. I dont even notice it. I have a 700 ADL in 204 and 22-250 with it, also an 870 12 guage. I have never had a problem with it locking on its own. I know a lot of people with the 870 and have never heard of one locking on its own. I know one guy that locked it and forgot to unlock it before he left. They had to tear it apart in the field to use it. Operator error not the firearm. I would bet that 99.9% of the people dont even notice the j-lock when they see someone shooting one. It is nothing more than a preference. Someone started complaining and others decided to follow.
The pictures above are exactly what I was trying to say about the spring being kinked up and it has to rub inside the bolt, causing friction which has to cause reduced lock time, which WILL makes your groups larger. Of course, some guys are only concerned about hitting a coyote and not shooting the smallest possible group - so they should leave the J lock setup on their guns and save their money.
Bayou City Boy
New member
Quote:
Here's the J-Lock next to the Callahan replacement.
Remington was using the funky firing pin spring well before the J-Lock came about. They are not synonymous with each other as is often portrayed......
-BCB
Here's the J-Lock next to the Callahan replacement.
Remington was using the funky firing pin spring well before the J-Lock came about. They are not synonymous with each other as is often portrayed......
-BCB
brdeano
New member
....Quick and dirty firing pin assembly removal....
This is what you have when you remove the bolt from the rifle
Here is a dime inserted in the slot. I don't have one the tools and just push down on the bolt with the lugs on the side of my workbench and then insert a dime
THen just unscrew the whole FP assembly
The new one will look like this when you get it.
Just screw it in partway and then insert the dime again.
Run it all the way in and pull out the dime.
This is what you have when you remove the bolt from the rifle
Here is a dime inserted in the slot. I don't have one the tools and just push down on the bolt with the lugs on the side of my workbench and then insert a dime
THen just unscrew the whole FP assembly
The new one will look like this when you get it.
Just screw it in partway and then insert the dime again.
Run it all the way in and pull out the dime.
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
Here's the J-Lock next to the Callahan replacement.
It is often said that the "kinked" spring slows lock time because of "friction" against the bolt body.
This is not true (that's about as polite as I can get about it).
Just because one of the springs "looks straight", it does NOT mean that it is friction free.
Remember that a long thin spring under compression MUST bend (kink) because it cannot support itself.
So the straight looking spring is rubbing against the firing pin itself, and the other is rubbing against the bolt body - Big Deal!!
ALL firing pin springs rub against something, because they cannot support themselves!
The amount is resistance is maybe an ounce, and the spring is between 24 to 30 pounds - so there is no significant resistance.
But the other side of the coin is that (as you can see) the firing pin o the J-Lock unit is much thinner, and the stop ring on the pin (the ring that is in the front of the spring) is also thinner.
The actual reality is that the firing pin on the J-Lock weighs about 450 grains, and the "standard" pin weighs about 750 grains (I weighed them both)... so the lock time with the pin with the kinky spring is ~1/2 the lock time of the straight spring.
It is not slower, it is EXTREMELY fast.
Unfortunately, this rumor has been so wide spread that Remington abandoned this design pin for cosmetic reasons, for a much heavier one, so the spring would "look nice" to the public.
People see something, and they "think" they know that there is a problem, and then they make up theories justify their opinion.
In this case, this rumor has hurt the shooters of Remington rifles.
.
Here's the J-Lock next to the Callahan replacement.
It is often said that the "kinked" spring slows lock time because of "friction" against the bolt body.
This is not true (that's about as polite as I can get about it).
Just because one of the springs "looks straight", it does NOT mean that it is friction free.
Remember that a long thin spring under compression MUST bend (kink) because it cannot support itself.
So the straight looking spring is rubbing against the firing pin itself, and the other is rubbing against the bolt body - Big Deal!!
ALL firing pin springs rub against something, because they cannot support themselves!
The amount is resistance is maybe an ounce, and the spring is between 24 to 30 pounds - so there is no significant resistance.
But the other side of the coin is that (as you can see) the firing pin o the J-Lock unit is much thinner, and the stop ring on the pin (the ring that is in the front of the spring) is also thinner.
The actual reality is that the firing pin on the J-Lock weighs about 450 grains, and the "standard" pin weighs about 750 grains (I weighed them both)... so the lock time with the pin with the kinky spring is ~1/2 the lock time of the straight spring.
It is not slower, it is EXTREMELY fast.
Unfortunately, this rumor has been so wide spread that Remington abandoned this design pin for cosmetic reasons, for a much heavier one, so the spring would "look nice" to the public.
People see something, and they "think" they know that there is a problem, and then they make up theories justify their opinion.
In this case, this rumor has hurt the shooters of Remington rifles.
.
brdeano
New member
I'm not claiming, nor have I claimed, anything on lock times...I just know I didn't care for what I seen when I pulled out my first jlock to clean it. I am more happy with the replacements I have than I was before, so that is reason enough in and of itself for me to swap them out.
2muchgun
New member
I do not care for the j-lock, and replaced the one on my model 7. It takes seconds. The rest of my Remmy's don't have one.
I can't say as I've ever really noticed a performance difference, although I would still think a straighter spring would give more consistent lock times. Some replacement units also have lighter pins, to speed up lock times.
My main problem with j-lock is their potential for inadvertent locking while in the field......
I can't say as I've ever really noticed a performance difference, although I would still think a straighter spring would give more consistent lock times. Some replacement units also have lighter pins, to speed up lock times.
My main problem with j-lock is their potential for inadvertent locking while in the field......
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
I'm not claiming, nor have I claimed, anything on lock times...I just know I didn't care for what I seen when I pulled out my first jlock to clean it. I am more happy with the replacements I have than I was before, so that is reason enough in and of itself for me to swap them out.
I didn't mean to imply that... your post just had the coolest pictures /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I don't like them either, and have gotten rid of them on my rifles, and the rifles of others.
.
I'm not claiming, nor have I claimed, anything on lock times...I just know I didn't care for what I seen when I pulled out my first jlock to clean it. I am more happy with the replacements I have than I was before, so that is reason enough in and of itself for me to swap them out.
I didn't mean to imply that... your post just had the coolest pictures /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I don't like them either, and have gotten rid of them on my rifles, and the rifles of others.
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RePete
New member
2muchgun,,,,,,,,I agree that just the possibility of the J-Loc failing is reason enough to get rid of it. One less thing to go wrong just seems like common sence to me.
CatShooter,,,,,,,,With all respect....Greg Tannel (Gre-Tan Rifles), who is a pretty well respected authority on Remington 700's actually manufactures a replacement firing-pin assembly similar to the one Brad posted.
Not looking for a fight, but there must be some benefit to upgrading the assembly. Maybe a better spring? Lighter/better material firing-pin? Whatever???
Or do you think it's just marketing and hype??
I'm no expert, and you deffinatly put forth some actual specks to back up your opinion, but so does Greg on his web-site.
Just curious.
Thanks
CatShooter,,,,,,,,With all respect....Greg Tannel (Gre-Tan Rifles), who is a pretty well respected authority on Remington 700's actually manufactures a replacement firing-pin assembly similar to the one Brad posted.
Not looking for a fight, but there must be some benefit to upgrading the assembly. Maybe a better spring? Lighter/better material firing-pin? Whatever???
Or do you think it's just marketing and hype??
I'm no expert, and you deffinatly put forth some actual specks to back up your opinion, but so does Greg on his web-site.
Just curious.
Thanks
looks like a stronger spring on the jlock set up,the other one has less coils=less spring strenth.I have yet to hear anyone that had one fail on them,if you want to replace it in order to get rid of the little J shaped shroud go for it,thats all you are changing.I cant imagine why the guy selling the replacement would have a speil about how horrible the jlocks are,why would anyone do that?ROFL! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Last edited:
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
CatShooter... With all respect....Greg Tannel (Gre-Tan Rifles), who is a pretty well respected authority on Remington 700's actually manufactures a replacement firing-pin assembly similar to the one Brad posted.
There are several people that make replacement firing pins - and Wolff makes great replacement springs.
Quote:
Not looking for a fight, but there must be some benefit to upgrading the assembly. Maybe a better spring? Lighter/better material firing-pin? Whatever???
Not looking for a fight either.
I know Greg (not as a beer drinking friend, but we have spoken on the phone at length about this issue)...
There are several advantages to upgrading the pin - many (but not all) of the Remington bolts have oversized firing pin holes, and it is a problem. Enough of a problem that a whole cottage industry has evolved to "drill & bush" the Remington bolt.
Quote:
Or do you think it's just marketing and hype??
I think some of it (the oversized pin holes) is important, but like a lot of other "accuracy improvements", the main improvement is to the makers bank account.
Darrel Holland has an oversized firing pin, that you polish down til it's a 0.002 clearance - and that is a terrific product, with a real need.
But much of this stuff is hype. The accuracy crowd is a ripe target to market "goodies" to. They have almost unlimited financial resources (even if it comes from the rent and food budgets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )
Do a Google search on wind flags bench rest... and the millions of different flags, butterflies, colored arrows, etc would fill a dump truck - and all of these guys are selling to the same small group, and each shooter has 12 different flag, looking for "Mister Good Flag" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif... the magic solution.
It ain't there.
Lookie... when you are shooting benchrest, the gun is held rock solid in heavy bags... it's NOT moving anywhere.
So what difference does it make if the lock time is 0.0035 seconds on one shot, and 0.0039 seconds on the next... the gun ISN'T MOVING!! The lock time could be a 1/20th of a second and it wouldn't make any difference.
Quote:
I'm no expert, and you deffinatly put forth some actual specks to back up your opinion, but so does Greg on his web-site.
I have no problem with Greg's firing pin - it is good... but is it needed?
Some shooter's pass time is adding "stuff" to their rifle, like high school kids do with their cars... they need to have the latest things... same with golfers, skiers, etc.
Whether it is worth it is for the individual to decide.
Quote:
Just curious.
Thanks
Your welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
.
CatShooter... With all respect....Greg Tannel (Gre-Tan Rifles), who is a pretty well respected authority on Remington 700's actually manufactures a replacement firing-pin assembly similar to the one Brad posted.
There are several people that make replacement firing pins - and Wolff makes great replacement springs.
Quote:
Not looking for a fight, but there must be some benefit to upgrading the assembly. Maybe a better spring? Lighter/better material firing-pin? Whatever???
Not looking for a fight either.
I know Greg (not as a beer drinking friend, but we have spoken on the phone at length about this issue)...
There are several advantages to upgrading the pin - many (but not all) of the Remington bolts have oversized firing pin holes, and it is a problem. Enough of a problem that a whole cottage industry has evolved to "drill & bush" the Remington bolt.
Quote:
Or do you think it's just marketing and hype??
I think some of it (the oversized pin holes) is important, but like a lot of other "accuracy improvements", the main improvement is to the makers bank account.
Darrel Holland has an oversized firing pin, that you polish down til it's a 0.002 clearance - and that is a terrific product, with a real need.
But much of this stuff is hype. The accuracy crowd is a ripe target to market "goodies" to. They have almost unlimited financial resources (even if it comes from the rent and food budgets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )
Do a Google search on wind flags bench rest... and the millions of different flags, butterflies, colored arrows, etc would fill a dump truck - and all of these guys are selling to the same small group, and each shooter has 12 different flag, looking for "Mister Good Flag" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif... the magic solution.
It ain't there.
Lookie... when you are shooting benchrest, the gun is held rock solid in heavy bags... it's NOT moving anywhere.
So what difference does it make if the lock time is 0.0035 seconds on one shot, and 0.0039 seconds on the next... the gun ISN'T MOVING!! The lock time could be a 1/20th of a second and it wouldn't make any difference.
Quote:
I'm no expert, and you deffinatly put forth some actual specks to back up your opinion, but so does Greg on his web-site.
I have no problem with Greg's firing pin - it is good... but is it needed?
Some shooter's pass time is adding "stuff" to their rifle, like high school kids do with their cars... they need to have the latest things... same with golfers, skiers, etc.
Whether it is worth it is for the individual to decide.
Quote:
Just curious.
Thanks
Your welcome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
.
RePete
New member
CatShooter..........Thanks. I am aware of how important the oversized pin hole and having it bushed is, and guess I buy into some of the hype at times too.
Most of us are just trying to get all we can out of our prized firearms and try and invest in the best parts for them. Sorta the same reason I buy expencive Synthetic oil for my truck when the generec stuff will get ya down the road the same. Sometimes the benefit, wheather real or precieved isn't blatantly recognizable but we do it anyway.
I still think the J-Loc is an extra moving part that can fail just like any other mechanical device, and I'm glad I replaced mine.
Also you DO have to agree with my original post that it "Looks Awfully Liberal"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Thanks for being Civil!!
Later
Most of us are just trying to get all we can out of our prized firearms and try and invest in the best parts for them. Sorta the same reason I buy expencive Synthetic oil for my truck when the generec stuff will get ya down the road the same. Sometimes the benefit, wheather real or precieved isn't blatantly recognizable but we do it anyway.
I still think the J-Loc is an extra moving part that can fail just like any other mechanical device, and I'm glad I replaced mine.
Also you DO have to agree with my original post that it "Looks Awfully Liberal"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Thanks for being Civil!!
Later
CatShooter
New member
Quote:
CatShooter...
Also you DO have to agree with my original post that it "Looks Awfully Liberal"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Later
Oooh... I DO agree.
And for me - that's half of the resentment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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CatShooter...
Also you DO have to agree with my original post that it "Looks Awfully Liberal"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Later
Oooh... I DO agree.
And for me - that's half of the resentment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
.