hunting4fun
New member
whats the difference between the two and can you shoot the 22-250 remington out of a 22-250 ackley? Is there an advatage from either one?
22-250 ackley vs 22-250 remington please help
- Thread starter hunting4fun
- Start date
yotedog65284
New member
You shoot a 22-250 in a 22-250 ackley to make the brass. But when doing so you have to make sure that it is a crush fit (resistence when closeing the bolt .002 to .004 of an inch).This is called fireforming. A 22-250 AI round has about the same muzzle velocity as a 220 swift.
EddieHarren
New member
If the rifle was chambered correctly, 22-250 AI brass is obtained by firing 22-250 brass in the AI chamber. I have built many 22-250AI rifles and believe it is one of the most accurate cartridges, in 224 cal, out there. Case life is excellent and the ballistic gain is considerable. Most of the rifles, that I have built, were fitted with 14 twist barrels to utilize the 50-55 gr. varmint bullets.
Diesel_Demon
Member
In most cases the Barrel chambered in 22-250ai will have a fast twist for heavy bullets.
For me the ai was not about getting more speed, it was going with a heavier bullet and trying to lose as little velocity as possible
For me the ai was not about getting more speed, it was going with a heavier bullet and trying to lose as little velocity as possible
hunting4fun
New member
so you shoot a 22-250 remington to get the cases shaped correctly in the 22-250 ackley? Are there any adverse accuracy issues just shooting 22-250 remington all the time out of the ackley?
Quote:
Are there any adverse accuracy issues just shooting 22-250 remington all the time out of the ackley?
It probably depends on your load, but I have found fireforming loads (not 22-250AI) in different guns quite accurate. And when people say aww fireforming is a "hassle" they just don't realize how easy it is. Its as simple as shooting a standard cartridge in a gun, use it for hunting or target practice. Alot of guys seat bullets long when loading fireforming loads, this insures your brass is hard against the boltface for consistant forming.
Those of you who shoot the Fast twist 22-250 Ackleys.. I was wondering how the 75 Grain A-max does on critters at these velocities at any or all ranges??????????
Are there any adverse accuracy issues just shooting 22-250 remington all the time out of the ackley?
It probably depends on your load, but I have found fireforming loads (not 22-250AI) in different guns quite accurate. And when people say aww fireforming is a "hassle" they just don't realize how easy it is. Its as simple as shooting a standard cartridge in a gun, use it for hunting or target practice. Alot of guys seat bullets long when loading fireforming loads, this insures your brass is hard against the boltface for consistant forming.
Those of you who shoot the Fast twist 22-250 Ackleys.. I was wondering how the 75 Grain A-max does on critters at these velocities at any or all ranges??????????
Ackman
New member
Quote:
so you shoot a 22-250 remington to get the cases shaped correctly in the 22-250 ackley? Are there any adverse accuracy issues just shooting 22-250 remington all the time out of the ackley?
A 22-250AI chamber is larger. The case expands to the chamber. You can shoot standard 22-250 ammunition and it'll be fine. But velocity with factory ammunition won't be as fast as it would be when fired in a standard chamber. Fireforming loads are hotter than standard and go faster. Talking about shooting 22-250 "all the time".....why would you want to, unless you don't handload? If you don't handload there's no point to having an Improved chamber. You won't be gaining anything and you'll lose velocity.
so you shoot a 22-250 remington to get the cases shaped correctly in the 22-250 ackley? Are there any adverse accuracy issues just shooting 22-250 remington all the time out of the ackley?
A 22-250AI chamber is larger. The case expands to the chamber. You can shoot standard 22-250 ammunition and it'll be fine. But velocity with factory ammunition won't be as fast as it would be when fired in a standard chamber. Fireforming loads are hotter than standard and go faster. Talking about shooting 22-250 "all the time".....why would you want to, unless you don't handload? If you don't handload there's no point to having an Improved chamber. You won't be gaining anything and you'll lose velocity.
Dadgummit....I have been ITCHING for a 22-250 AI for awhile! I really am wanting one in a faster twist to shoot heavy for caliber bullets. Same question as Flybuster..anyone shooting the A-maxs. Have had my eye on a Cooper. Anyone have any experience with their Improved chamber? My uncle has several Coopers, and they are all real shooters.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Welcome aboard joshf303. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
Jack
Jack
brdeano
New member
Quote:
Dadgummit....I have been ITCHING for a 22-250 AI for awhile! I really am wanting one in a faster twist to shoot heavy for caliber bullets. Same question as Flybuster..anyone shooting the A-maxs. Have had my eye on a Cooper. Anyone have any experience with their Improved chamber? My uncle has several Coopers, and they are all real shooters.
I am runnin' 75'max's in a 223AI and 22-250.....the little ai moves them at 3100 and the '250 is pushin' 3300+....what info are you looking for.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Dadgummit....I have been ITCHING for a 22-250 AI for awhile! I really am wanting one in a faster twist to shoot heavy for caliber bullets. Same question as Flybuster..anyone shooting the A-maxs. Have had my eye on a Cooper. Anyone have any experience with their Improved chamber? My uncle has several Coopers, and they are all real shooters.
I am runnin' 75'max's in a 223AI and 22-250.....the little ai moves them at 3100 and the '250 is pushin' 3300+....what info are you looking for.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Diesel_Demon
Member
200 fps between the 223 and 22-250 ?
The Butcher
New member
22-250 vs 22-250 AI, is like comparing a 22-250 to a .220 Swift. That is about the gain. In my 22-250 AI, I'm running around the 4000 fps mark, with 50 gr Bergers. My accuracy was so good fireforming, I could not wait to shoot all of the cases. I was getting 3/8" or smaller groups fireforming. This rifle now is just a groundhog grinding machine.
If you are in a pinch you could shoot factory 22-250 ammo in it but that makes no sense. DAA gave me some loads to start with in my 22-250 AI as the same Smith built our rifles. With the bullets seated touching the lands, A) forms a sharper shoulder on the case, and B) gives great accuracy. Shoot 1 grain under max in fireforming loads. Forget the cornmeal method of fireforming, as it is a waste of corn meal, and powder. If a good Smith builds your rifle, fireforming rounds, will be more than accurate enough to hunt with, so don't make it a chore, take it and go hunting. Mine has a .252 neck, and I have to neck turn on occasion. That is an added step. I also purchased Norma brass, as I feel they are better than any. Total weight difference in 100pcs, was 2/10ths of a grain, and flash holes are drilled not punched. My brass live has been excellent. If your going through the trouble of a wildcat, take the time and wring the most out of it. Just my 2 cts.
Quote:
Those of you who shoot the Fast twist 22-250 Ackleys.. I was wondering how the 75 Grain A-max does on critters at these velocities at any or all ranges??????????
I had an 8 twist .22-250AI that I used the 75 Amax in initially (until they started going poof...). With my long barrel (29"), they were moving 3400+ at the muzzle. Never used them on coyotes though, but did shoot a couple hundred rock chucks and a few prairie dogs with them. They were very explosive on the small varmints. Acted very much like a big Vmax.
- DAA
Those of you who shoot the Fast twist 22-250 Ackleys.. I was wondering how the 75 Grain A-max does on critters at these velocities at any or all ranges??????????
I had an 8 twist .22-250AI that I used the 75 Amax in initially (until they started going poof...). With my long barrel (29"), they were moving 3400+ at the muzzle. Never used them on coyotes though, but did shoot a couple hundred rock chucks and a few prairie dogs with them. They were very explosive on the small varmints. Acted very much like a big Vmax.
- DAA
Quote:
I had an 8 twist .22-250AI that I used the 75 Amax in initially (until they started going poof...). With my long barrel (29"), they were moving 3400+ at the muzzle. Never used them on coyotes though, but did shoot a couple hundred rock chucks and a few prairie dogs with them. They were very explosive on the small varmints. Acted very much like a big Vmax.
- DAA
Thanks for that bit of info. Do you think perhaps a 1-9 twist would be more than adequite for the 75-80 grain bullets. I understand A-Max bullets don't take velocity well, so maybe I would be better off at 3300 and under in velocity.
I have seen heavy bullets blow up in fast twist 22 hotrods. The guy said his throat area started to look like a "dry lake bed" , firecracking had set in causing his thin jacketed match bullets to go "poof".
I like the sounds of a 50 grain V-max going at 4000 fps, that sounds scary. Maybe I will Ackleyize my Tikka 22-250 with a 1-14".
I had an 8 twist .22-250AI that I used the 75 Amax in initially (until they started going poof...). With my long barrel (29"), they were moving 3400+ at the muzzle. Never used them on coyotes though, but did shoot a couple hundred rock chucks and a few prairie dogs with them. They were very explosive on the small varmints. Acted very much like a big Vmax.
- DAA
Thanks for that bit of info. Do you think perhaps a 1-9 twist would be more than adequite for the 75-80 grain bullets. I understand A-Max bullets don't take velocity well, so maybe I would be better off at 3300 and under in velocity.
I have seen heavy bullets blow up in fast twist 22 hotrods. The guy said his throat area started to look like a "dry lake bed" , firecracking had set in causing his thin jacketed match bullets to go "poof".
I like the sounds of a 50 grain V-max going at 4000 fps, that sounds scary. Maybe I will Ackleyize my Tikka 22-250 with a 1-14".
Last edited:
Quote:
Do you think perhaps a 1-9 twist would be more than adequite for the 75-80 grain bullets. I understand A-Max bullets don't take velocity well, so maybe I would be better off at 3300 and under in velocity.
I have seen heavy bullets blow up in fast twist 22 hotrods. The guy said his throat area started to look like a "dry lake bed" , firecracking had set in causing his thin jacketed match bullets to go "poof".
The 9 twist will work with the 75's. Gets iffy with the 80's - might work, might not, lots of variables, not the least of which is altitude. Closer to sea level, less likely the 9 will work with 80's (but it still might...).
The heavy bullets starting to go poof in the large capacity fast twist .22 calibers is just part and parcel of that kind of a rig. How soon it starts to happen depends on many things. With my 8 twist .22-250AI, the particular barrel I had (3 groove Lilja - there is some indication that a regular 6 groove might be a better choice for this application), and the way I used it, the barrel was history after 700 rounds. By then I was shooting 80 gr. SMK's at a reduced velocity (3150 fps), but could not get off a 10 shot string without the SMK's starting to go poof. At that point I just unscrewed the barrel and tossed it in the corner with the rest of the toasted barrels.
The guys who shoot a lot of these .224 VLD's tell me that they work best at around 3100 - 3200 fps anyway, so the extra velocity available from the large capacity case (and especially with a longer barrel) may or may not be a good thing. Depends on exactly what you want to do with it. I do know that you have to be careful about trying to run too much pressure with the VLD's. Those long BT's have a tendency to "slump" when kicked in the rear too hard, and then accuracy suffers signficantly.
Lots and lots of variables though. Not to mention the various applications and what an individual shooter wants to accomplish, and/or is willing to put up with. I think my 8 twist .22-250AI was pretty typical, for the way I used it. Most guys I've talked to who use them in similar fashion don't get a thousand rounds out of theirs before they become tomato stakes either. But then there are drastically different applications where the same barrel might be made to last much longer. Going with a slower twist, 9 vs. 8, if you can, will only help. But, at the end of the day, YMMV!
- DAA
Do you think perhaps a 1-9 twist would be more than adequite for the 75-80 grain bullets. I understand A-Max bullets don't take velocity well, so maybe I would be better off at 3300 and under in velocity.
I have seen heavy bullets blow up in fast twist 22 hotrods. The guy said his throat area started to look like a "dry lake bed" , firecracking had set in causing his thin jacketed match bullets to go "poof".
The 9 twist will work with the 75's. Gets iffy with the 80's - might work, might not, lots of variables, not the least of which is altitude. Closer to sea level, less likely the 9 will work with 80's (but it still might...).
The heavy bullets starting to go poof in the large capacity fast twist .22 calibers is just part and parcel of that kind of a rig. How soon it starts to happen depends on many things. With my 8 twist .22-250AI, the particular barrel I had (3 groove Lilja - there is some indication that a regular 6 groove might be a better choice for this application), and the way I used it, the barrel was history after 700 rounds. By then I was shooting 80 gr. SMK's at a reduced velocity (3150 fps), but could not get off a 10 shot string without the SMK's starting to go poof. At that point I just unscrewed the barrel and tossed it in the corner with the rest of the toasted barrels.
The guys who shoot a lot of these .224 VLD's tell me that they work best at around 3100 - 3200 fps anyway, so the extra velocity available from the large capacity case (and especially with a longer barrel) may or may not be a good thing. Depends on exactly what you want to do with it. I do know that you have to be careful about trying to run too much pressure with the VLD's. Those long BT's have a tendency to "slump" when kicked in the rear too hard, and then accuracy suffers signficantly.
Lots and lots of variables though. Not to mention the various applications and what an individual shooter wants to accomplish, and/or is willing to put up with. I think my 8 twist .22-250AI was pretty typical, for the way I used it. Most guys I've talked to who use them in similar fashion don't get a thousand rounds out of theirs before they become tomato stakes either. But then there are drastically different applications where the same barrel might be made to last much longer. Going with a slower twist, 9 vs. 8, if you can, will only help. But, at the end of the day, YMMV!
- DAA