Don't bother getting a college degree

YoteSackbuster

YoteSackbuster

New member
A degree of insignificance
Posted: December 28, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

U.S. News & World Report, which has made a name for itself by ranking and announcing the best colleges every year, is now ranking and listing the best careers for young people. A comparison of the latest lists shows a shocking disconnect and makes for dispiriting holiday reading.

While the price of a college education has skyrocketed far faster than inflation, many careers for which colleges prepare their graduates are disappearing. U.S. News' Best Careers guide concludes, "college grads might want to consider blue-collar careers" because bachelor's degree holders "are having trouble finding jobs that require college-graduate skills."

Incredibly, U.S. News is telling college graduates to look for jobs that do not require a college diploma. Among the 31 best opportunities for 2008 are the careers of firefighter, hairstylist, cosmetologist, locksmith and security-system technician.

Where did the higher-skill jobs go? Both large and small companies are "quietly increasing off-shoring efforts."

Ten years ago, we were told we really didn't need manufacturing because it can be done more cheaply elsewhere, that auto workers and others should move to information-age jobs. But now the information jobs are moving offshore, too, as well as marketing research and even many varieties of innovation.

The flight overseas includes professional as well as low-wage jobs, with engineering jobs offshored to India and China. Thousands of bright Asian engineers are willing to work for a fraction of U.S. wages, which is why Boeing just signed a 10-year, $1 billion-a-year deal with a government-run company in India.

Society has been telling high school students that college is the ticket to get a life, and politicians are pandering to parents' desire for their children to be better educated and so have a higher standard of living. Former U.S. Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., wants the taxpayers to guarantee every kid a college education, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney says more education is the means for Americans to compete in a global economy.

But it doesn't make sense for parents to mortgage their homes, or for students to saddle themselves with long-term debt, to pay overpriced college tuition to prepare for jobs that no longer exist. Tuition at public universities has risen an unprecedented 51 percent over the last five years.

President George W. Bush calls the loss of U.S. jobs "the pinch some of you folks are feeling." I guess his words are designed to show his "compassionate conservatism," but the reality is far more than a pinch.

U.S. News offers this advice for the nerds who still spend five to six years earning an engineering degree despite increasingly grim prospects of a well-paid engineering career: "Look for government work." Or maybe you can be an "off-shoring manager" and be part of the process of shipping your fellow graduates' jobs overseas.

A Duke University spokesman said that 40 percent of Duke's engineering graduates cannot get engineering jobs. A Duke University publication suggests that the best prospect for good engineering jobs is for the U.S. government to start another major project like going to the moon.

U.S. News warns us that "government is becoming an employer of choice." Corporations are getting leaner, but government can continue to pay good salaries with lots of vacation days, sick leave, health insurance and retirement benefits, because government rakes in more tax revenue in good times and can raise taxes in bad times; and if the Democrats win in 2008, we can expect government to expand even more.

Presidential candidates have gotten the message from grass-roots Americans that we want our borders closed to illegal immigrants. Headlines now proclaim "Immigration moves to front and center of GOP race" and "GOP candidates hold fast on immigration at debate."

But Republican Party candidates haven't yet gotten the message that jobs are just as big a gut issue as immigration. The Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey conducted Dec. 14-17 reports that, by 58 percent to 28 percent, Americans believe globalization is bad because it subjects U.S. companies and employees to unfair competition and cheap labor.

Where are the limited-government fiscal conservatives when we need them to refute the notion that the best an engineering graduate can hope for is a job with the government? Are fiscal conservatives too busy chanting the failed mantra of "free trade" even though it has resulted in millions of good U.S. jobs being shipped overseas?

When are we going to call a halt to the way globalism is destroying U.S. jobs by foreign currency manipulation, theft of our intellectual property, shipping us poisonous seafood and toys, and unfair trade agreements that allow foreign subsidies (through the so-called Value Added Tax) to massively discriminate against U.S. producers and workers?
 
I've been wondering why my son lives on welfare and goes hunting 300 days a year. No college education for that boy. At 35 he's retired and done working.
 
If you are getting a college education and trying to use what you learn from a book to make a living, you will fail. You must realize that education is intended to teach you how to think and be innovative. Listen to some liberal drival from some egghead professor and try to use philosophy to earn a living and you will starve. Get a good education and use it to think, innovate and learn social skills and you will be successful in what is still the "land of opportunity".

I have very little patience for someone saying that there is no opportunity out there today. Anyone with some common sense and motivation can make a living. Don't have what you are looking for in the job force? Start your own business. Nothing motivates like fear and hunger. Problem is that the government will not let anyone fear that they may go hungry.

I am a fan of college education, but it cannot stop there. A kid must either get a college education to compete in the white collar professions or learn a trade to make a living with his hands. But either way, they must learn some common sense along the way to complete their education. Nothing worse than an over educated fool.
 
I went back to college when I was 33 to get my degree and found that all they were really teaching me was how to put labels on things I had already learned through experience.

I've encouraged a lot of youngsters to go to a really good technical school and learn Electrical, Heating/AC, Health Care, or Diesel Mechanics if they wanted to be able to support themselves in a reasonable lifestyle.

Having spent 18+ years in the home of the main campus of the Univ. of MO...I've seen a lot of graduates, including those with a Masters (under the top 10% of their respective classes) working for min. wage as they had no useful job skills.. And the future doesn't look a lot better.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif
 
I am actually in the middle of college (well closer to the end). I can honestly say that i believe it is a waste of money(and my time, which [beeep] me off even more). Basically you spend 4 semesters taking classes that mean nothing to your major. All i can think of while i am studying geology is "wow, how is knowing what a metamorphic rock going to help me in the real world?" College has enlightened me quite a bit, that i am greatful of. But i am sick of all the run-around BS that college is. But to be able to do what i want to do, what i love, i need that piece of paper....so i will keep paying for it.
 
jwp is correct that college is a waste of time but necessary to get a "good?" job. College education prepares a person to work, like a poor bastard,for someone else. You will work for company, where the bean counters, who have zero knowledge of the technical capacities required to do certain things, and pay you s**t to do it. An example of this is the Aviation Industry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif

College education does not give you common sense or even knowledge. Many college grads can't find Pakistan on a map.
That is how and why driveling college professors are able to fool students into the Liberal/Socialist concepts of anti guns and Global Warming crap. It does NOT teach anyone to be able to THINK.


Frankie B.
 
If I remember right this same thing was happening in the early 70’s. There were a lot of people with degrees working for minimum wage because their degrees didn’t give them the skills they needed for employment. The others who have posted here make a good point a college degree is just the start of your education. In the end each of us is responsible for our own learning. I went back and finished a 2-year degree a few years ago. The fact that it took me 30 years to get a 2-year degree shows that it’s never to late to get more education. The degree opened a few doors but I learned more on the job in a couple of months than I did in all the time in night school.
 
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I've been wondering why my son lives on welfare and goes hunting 300 days a year. No college education for that boy. At 35 he's retired and done working.




No offense but I hardly call living off welfare at 35 retired. I would call that a deadbeat. I am 35 and going back to college again. I got accepted into the anesthesia program at the mayo school of medicine. I bust my butt to better myself and the life of my family. With this I will make more money and pay even more taxes. While the deadbeats of the world stop working at 35 and live off welfare (which comes from tax dollars). I dont know how he can look at himself in the mirror every morning. Give that boy a kick in the --- and tell him to get a life and provide for himself.

Sorry but that type of thing frosts my nads.
 
Quote:
Quote:
I've been wondering why my son lives on welfare and goes hunting 300 days a year. No college education for that boy. At 35 he's retired and done working.




No offense but I hardly call living off welfare at 35 retired. I would call that a deadbeat. I am 35 and going back to college again. I got accepted into the anesthesia program at the mayo school of medicine. I bust my butt to better myself and the life of my family. With this I will make more money and pay even more taxes. While the deadbeats of the world stop working at 35 and live off welfare (which comes from tax dollars). I dont know how he can look at himself in the mirror every morning. Give that boy a kick in the --- and tell him to get a life and provide for himself.

Sorry but that type of thing frosts my nads.



+10 Stoney!
 



Quote:
The fact that it took me 30 years to get a 2-year degree shows that it’s never to late to get more education. The degree opened a few doors but I learned more on the job in a couple of months than I did in all the time in night school.





Rimmy, you are correct.

I had technicians working for me who had more knowledge in the lint of their belly buttons than most of the dunderheaded graduate enginners had in their heads. Even with a degree, if a person cannot apply and correlate knowledge and experience. It's the same in any discipline.
How many really GOOD doctors do you know that are not pill pushers afraid of lawsuits that can correctly diagnose illnesses and symptoms like the experts seen on the Medical Channel?

Frankie B.
 
About 20% of the jobs in the U.S. require at least a 4-year degree. That number hasn't changed in decades. That leaves 80%. It used to be that most of that 80% (3/4) didn't need even a high school education. Most of those jobs were agricultural and factory work. That left 20% needing something more than high school but less than college. The job market has flipped. Now 60% need more than high school and less than college, and only 20% of our jobs can be had with just a high school education. Of course this is due in large part to technology. A machine can now do the job of 100 unskilled men. But someone needs to keep that machine running.

I agree that for the majority, a college education is a waste of time and money. Most do need some sort of technical or vocational training however. And flexibility is extremely important as the market is forever changing. Think of the jobs people do now that didn't even exist 25 years ago. Someone who pays attention and has good critical thinking skills can do well, if he wants to. But he must be willing to work. I think too many people nowadays think the world owes them everything.
 
Nowadays you need an MBA to get a decent job anywhere. A batchelor's degree is like a high school diploma these days. My wife has an MBA and she basically said it's a [beeep] thing she had to do in order to move up in her field (healthcare). She makes a six figure income, but she used to work 60 plus hours a week.

I make more money flipping houses (even now) than I do at my corp day job. I've been in Corp America for 25 years and I have learned one thing. You are replaceable and often with someone who will do the job with less experience or someone you trained. I worked for a large privately held company for 13 years and when they had ONE slow year, me and 3 other non-family members were laid off. I had to sell my home and move to Houston 5 months after having by-pass surgery to keep out of the poor house. Never again will I put my heart and soul in someone's else's hands.

I look at my job now as a contract worker. You pay me to do a job and that's where it ends. My loyalty is to the money noy your company. Been there done that and there ain't no future in working for other people.

Do I have a degree? Nope. Hopefully in the spring, I will be a full time carpenter/house flipper. :)
 
I both agree and disagree because it really depends upon the field you are going into. My current job I would absolutely not have if it were not for my Chemical Engineering degree. No matter the experience level, if I did not have the degree and appropriate experience, I would not have this job. However, I do agree with the post that said it's all for money. I'm replacable and I trade my knowledge and time for money. I'm not foolish enough to think this company cares about me at all.

Also, I have worked with more stupid engineers than I have blue collar idiots. These guys may have made straight A's in college, but their practical applications skills are not worth two cents. When a guy can't change the oil in his car how can he be expected to understand technical processes?

Those who can't will teach. Those who can't teach will manage. Those statements sum up how I feel about most management personnel I see these days, too.
 
Whew. Here in Co. Springs, the job economy took a nosedive 7 years ago and has never recovered. The big tech boom busted and the few major corps. left here are for the most part trying to downsize (still after 7 years of layoffs!) and outsource jobs overseas as much as possible. They only take on contractors when they have to (seldom employees) and then only if you can prove you can walk on water just to get an interview, and have 3 years experience at that exact job already (makes it hard to switch to something new). I used to be a computer programmer making good $, now I'm making $10/hr and can't find a better job in town. I became an independent life & health insurance agent to get out from under all this crap, but that is taking a loooong time to get off the ground.

Grrrrr.....
 
Such wisdom - lets hope most college bound & those in or graduating don't take thisa advice or surely our great country will fall further behind the rest of the world.

Education is one thing they can't take away from you.

yes-college educated/prof CPA
Tom
 
My point is that a 4 year degree is not what it used to be. One of the first things my wife had to do in order to be even considered for promotion was to get her MBA. In her field of health care administration a degree plus the MBA is the ONLY way to advance. She's now looking into getting her Phd.
 
The places I see education taking the place of education/experience/qualifications is in the education, government, and medical fields. My wife is in education and it baffles me how instead of merit based pay increases it is based solely on education. To make better than standard pay inreases my wife has to be constantly going to school and advancing her degree level.

I also have a buddy/co-worker whos wife is high up in education administration (PhD). She has made more than one comment on not understanding why I make more money with a BS in chemical engineering than her husband makes with a MS in chemistry. I've tried to tell her numerous times that he and I work in the private sector (manufacturing) where your pay is based on responsibilities, performance, and market conditions for that position. Given that she has never worked anywhere but education she doesn't get it.
 
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All i can think of while i am studying geology is "wow, how is knowing what a metamorphic rock [is] going to help me in the real world?"


Well, if you are going to be a geologist, it means everything. OTH, there is such a thing as being well rounded in one's education, even if some of the courses will have no direct bearing on one's career path. Am I a historian? No. But having studied some history in college has given me an appreciation for the bigger picture. By the way, my major at Texas A&M was Biomedical Science, the pre-vet school major. What do I do today? Pre-press graphics, website design and PHP programming on mySQL backends, and business management.

Not one single class I took in college has done anything for my career, but I don't regret one minute of it. Deliberately starving your mind of rigorous intellectual exercise and precision for its own sake only leads to pre-senile dementia. It's like depriving yourself of physical exercise because you don't plan on playing in the NFL. You may not need the exercise for your career, but it will help you live a longer and healthier life.

That's just my 2¢.
 
I got my BSEE and a Masters in Physics while working a full-time job, paying a mortgage, and starting a family. I seldom get to do any engineering these days but I love production and I'm really more of a hands-on sort of guy than a theorist. For the past 10 years, I have been setting up and optimizing factories all over the world. These are the factories that US companies have moved overseas, displacing jobs here. Except for God's good graces, I would have been one of those displaced workers.

Some may say that they never saw it coming. I was blessed to have seen it and got ahead of the curve. Sitting back whining about it and watching it crumble all around you won't get you anywhere in life, college degree or not. You have to take responsibility for your future and make it happen.

I have advised my kids that college is no guarantee of a good job or a good life. That degree is just another arrow in their quiver and they had better have something else to offer a prospective employer or they will get left behind. Ideas, innovation, anything that will differentiate them from the masses. But without the degree, they will never even be considered for many jobs that could be stepping stones to a great career.

Go back to school, get your education and move up a few places in line for the few jobs that will be left in the future. Employers love guys with years of practical experience and a formal education. Without the degree on the resume, many times you will not even get past the screening done by the human resources department.
 
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