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#811514 - 12/23/07 11:29 PM Re: [Re: trapwv]
huntsman22 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1673
Loc: Kiowa/Deer Trail Co.
I am one that don't really care what happens to the foot. These may be hard on feet, but they hold.......
And no jaw pops.
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#811515 - 12/24/07 12:41 AM Re: [Re: huntsman22]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
Huntsman, we all better start to care or more states will loose out in the years to come!!!!
Public perception is a powerful force and that can be shaped by what equipment choices we make. Live market trappers need to care about the feet for sure, and fur trappers and ADC personnel are wise to use the best equipment they can! Sure they all die in the end, but people care how an animal is treated until death, surveys have proven this, if we can show some empathy and convey the additions make our traps much better than 20-30 years ago tthat will only help us trappers. Look t the BMP studys the best thing I have gotten from them is what many have said for years, that steel jawed traps when modified can be as good and even better in injury to the padded traps, that is proven out in the research and is a major thing towards keeping us all from going to a padded trap!

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#811516 - 12/24/07 10:37 AM Re: [Re: ADCcoyote]
OKTrap Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 298
Loc: Oklahoma
I am just glad that the trap pictured by huntsman22 is just a show piece. Public misperception ruins a lot of great things for good folks. I hate it when a poll is taken for the publc opinion, and the majority of the public does not have a founded opinion, and even less hands on education.
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#811517 - 12/24/07 12:03 PM Re: [Re: OKTrap]
Rob Meyers Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 357
Loc: SW MT
Doesn't Wildlife Services use the #7 LPC which looks like the above trap for control actions on wolves? I remember reading a study on leg injuries to coyotes done by the gov't and the 3 1/2 rubber jawed LPC scored better than the MJ-600.. of the three traps tested the MJ-600 was the only one to have a foot amputation and second coyotes foot was nearly amputated.
_________________________
When you have to shoot,shoot,don't talk. Tuco Ramirez

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#811518 - 12/24/07 01:23 PM Re: [Re: Rob Meyers]
OKTrap Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 298
Loc: Oklahoma
I don't know anything about it, other than I have no use for them here in Oklahoma.
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#811519 - 12/24/07 01:37 PM Re: [Re: OKTrap]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
Rob Please point me to that study! In the BMP's the sterling did very well on the western coyote BMP's.With the wide offset where would you think your getting foot amputation?

Also for wolves a rounded lobed jaw does do well,sterling makes a wolf/mt lion trap that does very well, after the spring change to more power!

In fact the highest scored trap for efficantcy and damage combined was the #3 Bridger double laminated, it held a very high% of coyotes and did little damage, far better than the #3 soft catch in both areas combined. I don't think the LPC traps where ever tested in the BMP's?

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#811520 - 12/24/07 02:20 PM Re: [Re: ADCcoyote]
Rob Meyers Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 357
Loc: SW MT
Leg injuries to coyotes captured in three types of foothold traps. by Robert L. Phillips Kenneth S. Gruver and Elizabeth S. Williams 1996.
_________________________
When you have to shoot,shoot,don't talk. Tuco Ramirez

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#811521 - 12/24/07 04:34 PM Re: [Re: Rob Meyers]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
Rob the only study I could find with your title was modified and unmodified soft catch traps with the authors you listed and the time frame. You have a link stating the mj600 and the amputation aspects you talked about?
I want to see the protocl used and the wordings of the mj600 for myself? Thanks I couldn't find your listing of standard traps other than softcatch.
I;m sorry but I have used the sterlings for too many years and on too many coyotes to see amputation effects on coyotes held in these traps and talking 24 hr checks No way! Unless you have frozen swivels or some other cause.


Edited by ADCcoyote (12/24/07 04:36 PM)

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#811522 - 12/24/07 04:51 PM Re: [Re: ADCcoyote]
Rob Meyers Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 357
Loc: SW MT
I got a copy of the study from the National Wildlife Research Center
_________________________
When you have to shoot,shoot,don't talk. Tuco Ramirez

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#811523 - 12/24/07 05:02 PM Re: [Re: Rob Meyers]
Rob Meyers Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 357
Loc: SW MT
_________________________
When you have to shoot,shoot,don't talk. Tuco Ramirez

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#811524 - 12/26/07 12:29 AM Re: [Re: Rob Meyers]
itrap4u Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 110
Loc: wells, nevada
That is correct on the #7 Live stock protection traps, we do use them for wolves and lions, and they hold great and excel in animal comfort.
Also correct on the number 3 Bridger with the double laminated jaws, they did excel in BMP testing. It was just not the double lamination though it was called the Canadian modifications. Number 9 wire on the inside jaw, 3/16th inch round stock on the outside, lugs for the off set, center swiveled, 4 coiled. As I wrote earlier it is for the money the best trap on the market. I am personal friends with Glen Sterling and his trap is in deed a great trap. 2 things I dislike about it are that you can't increase your kill area with a screen cover and I can't get my fingers up through the bottom of the trap to trip the pan. The man is a genius when it comes to trapping innovations and has added a lot to the trapping community without much appreciation.

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#811525 - 12/26/07 10:31 PM Re: [Re: itrap4u]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
I trap, I have never seen a need for wire screen for trapping coyotes or bobcats. To me a waste of time when using sterlings. I know Glen SR and jr too and the pan is the right size and postioned well, no need at all for wire screen IMHO. It will do nothing for a sterling and no need for screen.
On my #3 bridgers I add PIT pans and again like the balance of these pans inside the jaws better than the factory and see no advanatge to screen for them either. Subtle guiding and you will have coyotes and cats a high % of the time. If you want to trip your sterlings use a pinky finger LOL. As far as cast I don't like to dry fire them many times, I use a boot when needed and once in a while I'll trip them to let the dry dirt fly but not often.

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#811526 - 12/27/07 09:29 AM Re: [Re: ADCcoyote]
itrap4u Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 110
Loc: wells, nevada
I guess what ever works for you is what you should use. We have experimented with and with out screen covers and you are right they do not help Glens trap and the clones of his trap but they do increase your kill area on dog and pan traps. I can research and get you the studies we've conducted and published by our research center in Fort Collins. When I set a trap especially in my profession and I have traps in the ground 365 days a year, I want every edge I can get to catch that lamb killer and the extra kill area that I get with a heavy screen cover is part of that edge.
That Junior sure is a crack shot with that 6mm of his isn't he.

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#811527 - 12/27/07 09:45 AM Re: [Re: itrap4u]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
Yeh junior can shoot pretty good with the 22-250 he has as well. You see I want the opposite when catching lamb killing coyotes, by increasing the kill area in effect to the size of the inside of the jaws, in my mind and what I have found is it to be counter productive.
If you have that coyotes just get inside the jaws with a few toes and that large of kill area then you risk more poor holds, Glen Sr made up special pans for OG years back that where much bigger, he didn't like them him self and I have used these as well and did notice more toe catches than the normal pan. I want livestock killers to be held well and deep and by using pan tension and centering the foot inside the jaws for me results in a much better deal!
I have tried screen and just don't see an advantage to it. You and others may, but with PIT pans I have increased the area well and it is better centered for a coyote foot IMHO. I use guiding at all my sets and if they commit to the lure/bait then it is a done deal a very high majority of the time. If it works for you great!
It hasn't proven itself to me for the added cost and time of cutting them. To add to more coyotes or better holds than what I get without them. Good day.

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#811528 - 12/28/07 01:28 PM Re: [Re: ADCcoyote]
trapwv Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 01/08/05
Posts: 727
Loc: Flemington,WV
I agree ADC, I don't like to increase pan size either. I don't want the trap to shift, snap, or move in any way until the animal is stepping on the exact spot. The animal can trip the trap without it's full foot on the pan and that is enough to worry about in itself. Add the screen and you have the possibility of the screen shifting when he steps on the edge of it or the trap tripping without his foot fully within the jaws. I know people use the screen with great success but I've tried it and it just doesn't make me happy. I prefer to use some guiding with small dirt clods or twigs and put a slight depression over the pan to make him step where I want. Just my opinion and you know what they say about that. Take care all

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