17 hmr vs. 17 rem

In a lot of parts of the country a 50-100 yard run by a coyote may result in a lost animal.

Rim fires of any flavor are not a sane, practical, or responsible choice in those conditions. It is pretty short sighted and more than slightly ignorant to make a blanket and unqualified recommendation of one for that purpose, especially for someone just starting out.

Stick with your 223 or buy the 17 Remington.
 
We had a bad experience shooting racoons with the 17hmr. Our landowner asked us to thin out the racoons on the property. We found 5 up in a 40ft pecan tree and we proceeded to thin them out with the little 17.

We were shooting the CCI loads and only had two that didn't try to run off after hiting the ground. I think we had to put three or four shots into one of them before he hit the ground, and we could see his shoulder blown open and destroyed. It just didn't seem to penetrate. He dribbled some blood and figured he'd bleed out after a few minutes. It just didn't happen.

The CCI's are supposed to have better penetration, but we might try the Hornady's next time. I wish I had brought my 22 with the stingers, but on that trip, it was either the 17, my 243 or a 38 special.
 
I've owned both the 17hmr and the 17rem. My hmr accounted for several foxes before I sold it a few months ago, when downsizing my gun collection. I've also taken called in fox with a 22 mag revolver, so I'm completely convinced that either cartridge is adequate for fox at reasonable ranges. I can't comment on the little hmr as a yote killer, as the opportunities Ive had while carrying it, were simply less than ideal. Yup there are a few of us out there that let game walk when we're not entirely sure of a claen kill, even coyotes.I can say that the 17rem that I've had since '79 is a very effective round on BOTH fox and coyote.Any shot's that weren't drt, expired within sight. And that was in the northeast where the dogs ran a lot bigger than the little prarie poodles we've seen out here.I have no doubts that the little rimfire can take coyotes, in the hands of a good marksman that knows it's limitations, and under ideal conditions. For comparative purposes, there simply is no comparison. Newbies would be much better advised to pick the proper tool for the job, and when choosing between the two, the 17rem is the proper and ethical choice. I'll likely buy another hmr sometime soon, because it's a dandy little cartridge for it's intended purpose, small to med-small thin skinned game out to moderate range. I usually stay out of these debates, but since the challenge out there, I figured I'd respond, if only because I've used both cartridges to collect fur, and that's my opinion, fwiw
 
I definitely see the advantage of the 17 rem. Now my interest is peaked on the 204. I looked at the Savage predator model 10 today. It is available in 204. Very sweet rifle. Is the 204 as easy on the hide as a 17rem? I was watching a coyote video today (Truth 2) and the 250's were blowing the @#$% out of the exit side. I don't want that. I have read many times the 17rem doesn't exit, this is ideal. DRT and no giant exit wound. If the 204 is comparable that may be the one. I really liked the Savage.
 
I would have to agree the only common factor between these two are bullet dia for sure. As far as killing some critters, I worked with the Ruger and Hornady folks on this same concept before the .17 HMR hit the market. Shot everything that walked within reason with it to see what it could do and came up with the following opinions on seen results in the field.

One can also quiz our own Randy Watson on his views of the .17 HMR in the field as a predator round. As he was with me calling for a few days in TX. He and I took the first bobcat ever shot with the HMR. 30-lb'er at 80 yds. DRT with one shot however it was right between the eyes.

With that said, the .17 HMR is one of the most accurate little rounds I have shot out to 100 yds or so. Just way to expensive to shoot in my book. However, it would not be a coyote round recommended from my experience unless you can head shoot them everytime between 50 and 75 yds. Also, if the 20gr load does not splash as the .17gr one can on the skull with a poor shot. First yote we shot with the new round took a dead center chest shot at 53 yds. Yote went down like a sack of bricks. While we were celebrating Randy's hunting partner stated, "You better get another round fired up cause your yote has just hit the high road. Yote jumped up about as fast as he hit the ground biting himself. Blased off in a dead run and was never seen again! We could not even find him! To me it is just not fair to the critter nor humane enough for me to count on DRT's.

Cat's give up the ghost pretty easy but still have to stick with the head shot everytime theory here too.

Fox (grey's) seem to not stand up well to the 17gr loads with lung shots at 50 yds or so. I did not try any farther out than that due to what I saw from previous work above. Never lost one.

Ground Hogs seem to fall to the .17 HMR if the range and point of impact is proper. Can't count the number of PD's shot with this round and it does not seem to anchor them 100% of the time at 100 yds with a body shot. However, the .17 HMR is headshot accurate for PD's and smokes them when hit there.

Not trying to get anything started here as everyone has their own opinions of what they see. I am sure you can kill an elephant with a .22 lr but that is not what I would want to use. I pretty much pissed off both Ruger and Hornady with my results as the promoted new predator round just did not live up to its expectations from my results.

TX17, no rimfire can compare to a centerfire round. 2550 fps vs 4000 plus makes a difference. Love the .17 Rem use it all the time. With the right bullet it is one of the best predator rounds I have seen. The downside is you have to be a reloader to get full benefit. Rem factory loads are what gave the .17 Rem a bad name in the first place. They are terrible. I have seen them splash on Grey Fox at 60 yds. On the other hand have killed 30-lb cats with them, no problem with good shot placement. They seem to be hit or miss.

Accuracy of the .17 Rem with the right rifle/bullet/load combo is awesome. Shooting some of the new high BC 30gr bullets have seen it compare to my .220 Swift out to 500 yds in the wind. 17 Rem is not for everyone as they have their ups and downs. Just one of my favorites!

.17 HMR is not even in the same book as a .17 Rem. .17 Rem's are hard to find as Rem wants the new .17 Fireball promoted as the newest replacement. Sorry but that is not a comparison either! They have stopped production on .17 Rem's
CZ had a great one but stopped it as well. Tikka was awesome but barrel twist was not right. Could not shoot the new heavy high BC bullets. It went away too. Rem's can be found but are hard. I just got word where 8 new in the box BDL's are suppose to be. Will be on them Monday morning!
Best thing to do is build a custom! Have one with the new Kreiger .17 barrel and it is awesome.
 
too expensive to shoot?50 rnds CCI TNT $11.I guess the yotes,fox,coons,ecty that I have and will continue to kill with my HMR didnt get the memo about it not being adaquate for them,Ill make sure they never do.I have lost a couple yotes hit with my larger caliber rifles over the years,havnt lost a singlr critter with the HMR,I keep my shots close and it shoots like a friggen lazer beam,kills quick enough for me and the little tiny hole in the pelt is unmatched.
 
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Nonya, I see by your choice of words you are a smart man that knows what he is talking about, "I keep my shots close." I just wished everyone else would use this type of thinking. Excellent results are proof. The problem to me is most folks can't be counted on to use good common sense when it comes to things like this as they don't have the knowledge or experience as some being new at this. Keep Smokin'em!
 
Rgr that Steve,I know the HMR has its limitations,range,critter size,ect.Other than my close range spotlighting it takes a back seat to the 7 mag on serious yote hunts.It is an outstanding gopher gun that will kill them dead out to 300,once you learn the drop(I use a mildot) its fun as heck to do long range(300 yards) PD kils with,quite explosive with the CCI TNT HPs.
 
In GA we can only use small game firearms on fox and bobcat by law. I guess it's to keep deer hunters from shooting them. I think they should make it legal for center-fire .20cal and smaller (legal deer gun must be .22 cal or larger in GA) But since it's not, shot placement is critical with rim-fires on these critters. My Marlin 917VS can shoot 1" groups at 100yds all day. I have yet to find a 22Mag that I can do that with. I will sacrifice a small amount of energy to be able to put it in the right 1"spot.

A good article by Chuck Hawks:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/compared_17HMR_22WMR.htm

has this energy info:
.17 HMR, 17 grain V-Max = ME 245 ft. lbs., 185 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 136 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 99 ft. lbs. at 150 yards, 72 ft. lbs. at 200 yards.
.17 HMR, 20 grain XTP = ME 250 ft. lbs., 187 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 137 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 99 ft. lbs. at 150 yards, 72 ft. lbs. at 200 yards.
.22 WMR, 30 grain TNT = ME 325 ft. lbs., 200 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 120 ft. lbs. at 100 yards, 80 ft. lbs. at 150 yards.
.22 WMR, 40 grain JHP = ME 324 ft. lbs., 230 ft. lbs. at 50 yards, 162 ft. lbs. at 100 yards.

I was surprised the 17HMR out-performes the 22 WMR 30gr TNT at 100yds.

The 17Rem and 17FB are ideal for Fox and Bobcat but they are illegal in GA. That needs to change!
GAJoe
 
i am not adding to the debate a whole lot but here in arkansas we have a WMA where you can kill coyotes with a rimfire only no centerfires or a bow of course.. i shoot coyotes with my HMR and it does excellent inside 100 yds usually neck shots but id go with the 17 centerfire, because you never know what lurks in the woods.. a rabid coyote wont shrug off a 17rem like he would a HMR
 
.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!.204!

What were we talkin about?
 
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