45-70 loads

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deltahunter

New member
I just got a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70. It has a 32 inch barrel. (Brand New) I loaded some rounds using H4198 and a 300 gr Sierra HP. I accidentally read the load data for a ruger #1 and used that info for loading my Buffalo Classic. I got 2522 fps out of this load. I felt this couldn't be right, and called my gunsmith. He told me that I was extremely over loaded. I looked in the manual and got the load data for the lever action rifles. my gunsmith said the load data for the lever actions is interchangable with the H&R single shot. I took that data and loaded the 300 gr Sierra and 54 grains of H4198. DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS ON LOADS FOR THE 45-70. I want to get as much velocity and range as possible.

thanks,
charles
 
You can shoot the ruger loads in it if you want, but most find the recoil objectionable if not brutal even in the upper levergun data. The SB2 frame of the Buffalo Classic is the same frame as the factory chambered 500 S&W Magnum Handirifle, with a SAAMI MAP of 60kpsi and larger case head, so the 50kcup ruger loads aren't gonna hurt the rifle, but can't say the same for the shooter!! You'll be able to take advantage of the 32" barrel with IMR4198 and the either the Nosler 300grPP or Speer 300gr Uni-cor bullets, the Sierra bullet is a lot more fragile and short range shots will ruin a lot of meat, you'll approach 2700fps with the IMR4198 with either of those bullet out of the longer barrel, use Hodgdon's IMR data for the 300gr Sierra and working up from their modern rifle start load. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
http://data.hodgdon.com/
 
First of all what size game are you shooting at? The fastest bullet doesn't always become the best one to use. For southern deer the 300gr bullet will work okay. If you intend to shoot larger game I would move up in bullet weight. I shoot a 405gr Woodleigh @1900 out of my Marlin Cowboy model. I smoked a Cinnamon Black Bear this spring with it at 50yds and knocked it down in it's tracks. A broadside shot exiting the right shoulder, 3/4 " exit hole and the bullet may still be going. You can make some tremendously long shots with the 45-70 but shhoting at a live animal is another matter. I would stick to short to mid-range yardages with it. The Real Guns website and Beartooth bullets have links to some good reloading data. Cast bullets are another option also. Good luck
 
I use H4198 under a Remington 405 gr. bullet until I found an accurate load in the velocity range I wanted. I get 1,861 fps from my Marlin's 22" barrel with excellent accuracy. That is plenty of power for anything I'm likely to encounter.
 
The Mississippi primitive weapons season allows the use of H&R centerfire rifles in 38 cal and larger, that's why the interest in the flatter shooting 300gr loads for deer. The 250gr Barnes TSX would be another good one, an MPBR of 250yds plus is easily doable with the 300gr bullets in top levergun data. The 300gr Barnes SSSP might also work being a spitzer, although I don't know its terminal performance characteristics, I've shot em before, but only on paper. If Hornady ever offers the flex tips as a component, it'll sure make some 45-70 handloaders happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I forgot to mention that I called H&R today and they told me to go by the lever action 1885 Marlin reload data. The 56 gr. of H4198 is a mild load listing on Hodgdon's site for the lever action, but it was VERY HOT out of my rifle. Recoil isn't too bad. I had a sim's recoil pad (grind to fit) put on the rifle. I want to shoot the fastest load I can, but don't want to hurt the gun. Keep the feedback coming.
 
H&R will tell you levergun data, but they also say no handloads in the owners manual, more lawyer talk!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

http://hr1871.com/documents/manuals/HR_NEF_HANDI_RIFLE_MANUAL.pdf

I shoot 56.2gr H4198 in Rem nickel brass w/9½ primer with the Nosler 300gr PP crimped with the Lee FCD in one of my two H&R 45-70 Handirifles w/22" barrel, velocity is 2425fps, same load in the 32" BC is 2450fps, IMR4198 gives much better velocity in the longer barrel, approaching 2700fps with a max load and the 300gr Speer.

If you want more info on H&Rs, more than you'll find anywhere on the net, visit the GBO NEF/H&R Centerfire forum.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?board=126.0
 
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You might also get some recommended loads from your neighbors on the MDWFP Whitetail forum. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Most folks don't try to make a long range hunting firearm out of the 45-70, there are much better tools for that task, but in your primitive hunt, since it's one of the few period firearms that's legal, I can see trying to get the most out of it as you can.

http://www.mdwfp.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=7
 
Sounds like you guys got some pretty hot loads there! I use the H4198 and get about 2100 fps out of my Marlin guide gun. It is max and can tell it too!! LOL!!! This load is plenty for about anything around here. Just don't blow nothing up. Would think some slower powders would work well in those longer barrels. Figure faster burning ones would peter out.
 
The 300gr Nosler PP/H4198 load is a good load for the 1895 GG, start at 50gr and work up, crimped with the Lee FCD at the bottom of the cannelure, COL is 2.531", it's been discussed a lot at Marlin Owners forum. It works great in the shorter barrel, but kind of a waste in the 10" longer BC barrel compared to IMR4198. I know they're right next to each other in burn rate, but the IMR provides considerable more velocity.

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=11969&highlight=4570+data

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=14070

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

links added
 
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thanks for the help guys. I am more confused now than before. ha ha Should I use the loads for the lever actions or the falling blocks?? What is YOUR PERSONAL favorite load for the H&R 45-70 rifles?
 
If you want a flatter trajectory, you want to use at least the levergun loads or limit your shots to 150yds or so due to the even more rainbow trajectory of the trapdoor data.
 
Use the lever action loads, while your H&R will maybe take the hotter Ruger only loads why put more stress on the rifle than you need to? I have found a good load in my Marlin 1895 CB is 50.4 Grains IMR 3031 under a Remington bulk 300 Grn JHP gives aprox 1900 FPS pretty mild shooting and don't hurt much meat in fact you can eat right up to the hole on the four mulies and five boar hogs I have shot to date with this rifle and load all have been DRT as well.
In most cases you will find you get better accuracy with a slower load, remember this is a .458 diameter bullet it don't have to be going real fast to kill any thing it hits.
 
with 56 grains of H4198 I got 2522fps and the gun shot good. I felt that may be a little too much pressure. I dropped down to 54 grains of H4198 and got 2390 fps, but the rifle shot horrible. I liked the relief of feeling I was safer with the milder load, but I didn't like the less accuracy. Give me your opinions
 
That's what confuses the heck out of me!!! Sierrra's MAX load for the 300 grain bullet with H4198 is 54 grains. Hodgdon's START load is 55 grains.????????????????????? That is what has me so worried. How can one expert's start load be another expert's MAX load with the same bullet in the same rifle???
 
That's because they don't all use the same pressure level limits, just adds to the confusion. Since you're using book components that Hodgdon lists, use their data too! Works for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Hodgdon uses the same limits as Hornady except for trapdoor.
Trapdoor
Hornady - 25,000 CUP
Speer - 21,000
Lyman - 18,000

Levergun
Hornady - 40,000
Speer - 28,000
Lyman - 28,000

Ruger
Hornady - 50,000
Speer - 35,000
Lyman - 40,000
 
O.K. I'm gonna try the Hodgdon data. What are the signs of excessive pressure I should look for in the lever action? The hotter loads I have loaded so far have made scratch marks on the back of the case head from the reciever of the gun. Do these marks mean the loads are too hot?? I just have no idea of the signs.
 
My opinion would be the H&R is in no way as strong as the Ruger number 1 action! I would not be shooting those.

You may need to try a different powder. Any way, just be careful.
 
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