Blackpowder Blues

ARCOREY

ARCOREY

New member
I've been toying with my Omega Z-5 thumbhole the wife bought me for christmas last year on and off all summer. I have been trying the 200gr Shockwave Sabots with different amounts of loose American Pioneer FFFG and Pyrodex RS. I have also tried the 777 100gr pellets. At 50 yds I can keep the first 3 shots in the same hole just doing a spit patch and a dry patch in between. I clean after 3 shots by just running a bore snake through and cleaning the breech plug. I'm using the Winchester 777 #209 primers and really want to stick with the American Pioneer and Shockwave combination. The problem is when I back up to 100 yds, the 3 shot group grows to about 6" or 8" which is totally unacceptable. The last offering I tried was 80 gr. of the FFFG Shockey's Gold after the 85 gr. kept climbing between 50 and 100 yds. Any suggestions other than sell the rifle /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif? I recently had a 4 shot group in one ragged hole at 100yds, but it was 6" low, when I adjusted the scope it never grouped again at 100yds. It is a Pentax Gameseeker 3x-9x-50mm ballistic plex in Leoupold Dual Dovetail rings and 1 piece base, and everything is tight. The 50yd 1 hole groups are what keep me confused /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.
 
I gave the Shockey powder an honest try last year, I couldn't achieve acceptable acc with 3 different mzl loaders, 2 Omega's and an older Tradition's inline, after trying all summer. I dumped what I had left in the yard.

I swithced to loose 777 and had very little issues after that, I run the Barnes' bullets in mine. The Omegas are both turning in groups from 1-2" at 100.
 
Here's a total guess..... but to me it sounds like the same problem I was having shooting High Velicity Hornady Sabots out of my 870 with a rifled choke tube. Too hot to stabilize. I went to a rifled barrel and they shoot fine, still a little imperfect, but 2" at 100 with a shotgun is ok. They're just too fast.

I'd try decreasing the load a little bit before I sold the gun. Not alot, just a little. Slow 'em down as slow as you can to still have the ft lbs to hunt with and check your 100yd. If it works, bracket it up until you lose it.

Again, just a guess based on 2000fps sabots.
 
sell it and buy a savage 10ML II. you DON't have to clean it for a long string of shots, and it uses 44grs of N110 (mine anyway) for a velocity that BP and the equivalents just can't touch at 3x the charge. It is easily a 1" gun at 100yds and has been a one hole gun on occasion. I'm 2 1/2" high at 100yds, and dead nuts at 150yds, and only a few inches low at 200yds.

I know that isn't an answer, but I have become far more fond of ML's since the savage replaced my Remington. They are far less aggravating than the rest of the heap. You won't be sorry, I KNOW your pain.
 
neither is shooting at the time when 90% of the country's whitetail are harvested /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
I have some loose 777 FFFG sitting around and just bought some powerbelt 245 gr bullets for the heck of it, although I'd rather stick to the 200 gr. Shockwaves. I have the old reliable Knight if this doesn't get fixed in time, just would hate to hear the nagging from the Mrs. about not using the newer rifle. I may also back the charge down to about 75 gr. before I quit the AP powder. It just seems like a weak load though. I may convert to the 25 acp or 22 hornet ignition I read about if this doesn't work out, but that will be next summer. Brdeano, what weight bullet you using in your Omega and how much 777.
 
Corey-
I have a buddy who shoots an Omega and he pushes a 338gr Powerbelt with a max charge of pellets (pyrodex, I think) and gets groups similar to brdeano's.
 
I used h4198 in my Encore. Wouldn't sugget it in an Omega.
Measurment has to be precise as with centfire. Not many BP guns can do that. It shoots like a 30-30 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Anyway big bore MLs can be tough on a scope even those built for magnums. If you've jarred the daylights out of the scope it may be faulty and you don't know it. Pentax is a good scope but I don't think any scope is immune to big bore shock. I've trashed 2 of TCs Magnum proof scopes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif on a 50cal using 240 pills.
On a different note there are a lot of reasons why smokeless powder is way more accurate than BP. But largely its because of the cleanbore. Not having to clean makes a world of difference "cost wise also". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
DEFCON
 
Its not the powder is the hard blue sabots that are causing the fliers. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with my Omega loaded with 150g of 777 with these. Try the 250g or 300g offerings with the softer black sabbot. They retain more engergy down the line anyways. If you check some of the recent posts you can see my groupings with them. One ragged hole with the 300g at a 100 and quarter sized group with the 250s. I'll post the pics below. I searched high and low for a different sabbot for the 40 cal 200g bullet and couldn't find anything to try.
 
I am running the 250gr Barnes' bullets. Been shooting them for about 4years, no complaints at all about the bullets.

Here is a pic of the only one I have recovered. They dig deep....

Xbuck.jpg
 
I run 777 loose and Hornady SST or TC Shockwave, same bullet different package.

110gr of 777, seat the bullet tight, still running percussion caps, Older Knight MK-85 stainless with a thumbhole stock, Burris Ballistic Plex 3x9 and routinely shoot 1.25" groups at 120 yards.
Spit patch once, turn same patch over and swab it in and out.
Reload and repeat.

Clayman
 
My TC's don't like any bullet lighter than 250 grains, I have also found that loose 777 shoots best in mine. I use a converted breech plug with a .25 ACP case and CCI 400 small rifle primers. AS for smokeless powder in any TC muzzle loader, DON'T TRY IT! You will be playing with fire! If you want to shoot the Shockwaves try the 250. I shoot 250 grain QT's or 260 Dead Centers from Precision Rifle. JMO.

Bob
 
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