Going to NM on mule deer hunt property owner is having Problems With bear and MT. Lion getting his sheep asked if i would mind trying to get them. Called several coyotes but may be out of my league with this need some advise on sound and tactics. have fx3 unit, can hit accuratly at 5-700 yards. any help is apreciated.
mt lion calling need tips
- Thread starter NOVICE
- Start date
rainshadow1
Custom Call Maker
Find 'em first, then sneak in, call long, and sit still. There's alot of specifics to it, but your location and situation will determine that. It's really that simple. Not easy, but that simple.
deputysam
New member
I'm a novice too; only shot one coyote while deer hunting but would love to hunt really outlaw mountain lions though have no success record. Am Retired from US ARMY and PCSO so now have lots of time to invest in hunting and if where you are going they would accept more help from a rank beginner but quick learner, write me!
Thanks!
Sam III
Thanks!
Sam III
yuccabush
New member
Landowners, lessees or their regular employs may without a license, kill any cougar that has killed domestic livestock or presents an immediate threat to human life or property. You still need to report your kill within 24 hour of time so the G&F can collect data. If you are acting as an employ to the landowner the G&F may ask for proof of that claim.
Bear reads about the same.
Good luck.
Bear reads about the same.
Good luck.
You have your work cut out for you.
Lions are REAL big on traveling.
Say you have a recent kill ....... like real recent. That cat could be holed up a mere hundred yards away or miles away already OR still in the general area and paying pass by visits to that kill every so often but either feeding on it or not.
That's where tons of scouting pays off because if you call into an "empty auditorium" you've utterly wasted your time.
Second, much has been made of using cougar sounds.
Two thoughts:
You MUST know what "kind" of cougar you are seeking to use cougar sounds. Is it a female? Does she have kitten(s)? Is it a male?
The wrong cougar sound will drive the cat off.
And, as to the cougar sounds themselves .... they must be GOOD sounds.
I have recently listened to an FX3 upgraded to a five and I would not play the coug sounds I heard to a cougar. I would play the house cat fight .... I thought it had merit.
What I would do in your case is to use prey sounds (rabbit, birds, elk cow or better yet elk calf) and off set from the most recent kill, providing you can discern the cat is still in the area.
I have no affiliation with any call company. I am merely a rancher/hunter with my own cougar problem AND I have friends with several of the major calls and sounds. For my money, I have not bought ANY of them for cougs. If I was forced to buy one (I opt instead for the MP3 route) I would buy the WT .... but I don't consider the package worth the money. It's a matter of equipment and reproduction of the sounds/ recording of the sounds.
Also, I would hunt with a partner set up in such a way to cover as many possible cougar approaches as is possible. You would be AMAZED at how such a large animal as a cougar can sneek in and even out UNDETECTED!
Your movement has to be ZERO .... or you will be busted sure as an ice cube melts in boiling water. On the necessary long stands ...... that's tough! I suggest you think about blinds for you and your partner. A friend employed one two years ago and hit pay dirt TWICE ...... first one on day one and then a second cat on day two! His clients had never hunted cat before that says a lot. He used just plain elk cow meows.
A well trained dog ....... what I mean is one that stays put and keeps quiet except for quietly alerting you on your stand is employed by a good many cat callers. The dog extends your eyes and ears etc. A little fur ball dog is a good as a big bone crusher for this purpose .... probably better!
Hope this has not scarred you off! That's not the intent.
Three 44s
Lions are REAL big on traveling.
Say you have a recent kill ....... like real recent. That cat could be holed up a mere hundred yards away or miles away already OR still in the general area and paying pass by visits to that kill every so often but either feeding on it or not.
That's where tons of scouting pays off because if you call into an "empty auditorium" you've utterly wasted your time.
Second, much has been made of using cougar sounds.
Two thoughts:
You MUST know what "kind" of cougar you are seeking to use cougar sounds. Is it a female? Does she have kitten(s)? Is it a male?
The wrong cougar sound will drive the cat off.
And, as to the cougar sounds themselves .... they must be GOOD sounds.
I have recently listened to an FX3 upgraded to a five and I would not play the coug sounds I heard to a cougar. I would play the house cat fight .... I thought it had merit.
What I would do in your case is to use prey sounds (rabbit, birds, elk cow or better yet elk calf) and off set from the most recent kill, providing you can discern the cat is still in the area.
I have no affiliation with any call company. I am merely a rancher/hunter with my own cougar problem AND I have friends with several of the major calls and sounds. For my money, I have not bought ANY of them for cougs. If I was forced to buy one (I opt instead for the MP3 route) I would buy the WT .... but I don't consider the package worth the money. It's a matter of equipment and reproduction of the sounds/ recording of the sounds.
Also, I would hunt with a partner set up in such a way to cover as many possible cougar approaches as is possible. You would be AMAZED at how such a large animal as a cougar can sneek in and even out UNDETECTED!
Your movement has to be ZERO .... or you will be busted sure as an ice cube melts in boiling water. On the necessary long stands ...... that's tough! I suggest you think about blinds for you and your partner. A friend employed one two years ago and hit pay dirt TWICE ...... first one on day one and then a second cat on day two! His clients had never hunted cat before that says a lot. He used just plain elk cow meows.
A well trained dog ....... what I mean is one that stays put and keeps quiet except for quietly alerting you on your stand is employed by a good many cat callers. The dog extends your eyes and ears etc. A little fur ball dog is a good as a big bone crusher for this purpose .... probably better!
Hope this has not scarred you off! That's not the intent.
Three 44s
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doesn't scare me a bit if i thought it was going to be easy i would'nt have found this site. You and others on here have given me some great info and i do appreciate it. Anymore tips just let me know and i will let you know how it turns out later on. thought about trying to tape it but sounds like thats going to be wayyyy to much movement to even attempt. Thanks again for the info.
Curt Barrett
New member
I have to disagree with at least one of the points made. First, regarding FX-5 cougar sounds. 44 said: "I have recently listened to an FX3 upgraded to a five and I would not play the coug sounds I heard to a cougar. I would play the house cat fight .... I thought it had merit." Wow. This line of thought is going to severely limit success. I've called cougars with a JS-512, an old foxpro 416, the newer FX-5. All using cougar sounds. Two times that I witnessed, these cats literally came on the run. One of the others I couldn't see till it entered the stand so it may have ran in as well. It was standing there trying to communicate with the caller, answering the sounds coming out of the FX-5. To claim that foxpros cougars sounds have no merit is lets say...disingenuous at the very least, to put it nicely. I've called them in using prey sounds alone but they seem to hang up more for whatever reason. I know they can be called in successfully with prey sounds alone. Heck I know a guy that called a big tom last season with a handcall in 10 minutes first time he ever called cougars, but it seems to be consistently less effective.
44 I have a lot of respect for you as a predator hunter. Don't think I'm trying to start anything. I'm typing with a smile. It's just that in my opinion the statement regarding cougar vocals is not accurate. I've seen it work too many times to believe otherwise. I'm not claiming to be an expert or to have any special knowledge about cougar hunting but I have done a heck of a lot of calling for them with distress/ prey sounds alone vs. adding vocals to the mix. If a caller is limiting himself to only prey sounds then I can see why he would be happy "just calling a cat to your proximity". I'm not trying to push foxpro. I really don't care what caller a person buys. (Although it would certainly be a good choice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) Foxpro is doing fine without my help.
I will say this though. I spoke with a frustrated fella that was intensely calling the exact same area I was last season. He called my house after I got my cat and wanted to know what sounds I was using and how. After being very vague with the details because I'm not going to just give away what I have many hours experimenting into, I asked what caller he was using. He said a WT. He was ready to sell it and get an FX-5. I told him I doubted switching callers was going to change his luck. Now anyone with even a little experience knows it isn't as much the caller as being in the place where the cats are. He may go in this year and call one the first day and I'll get skunked if he is in the right place and uses his caller right. Whatever caller you use though, sound selection and how you use them is critical. Foxpros cougar sounds are valuable and effective. I spoke with a another guy on the phone toward the end of last season. He didn't live here and had a new FX-5. I shared with him what worked for me. The next weekend he sent me pics of the cougar he called and harvested. He called cougars only a handful of times before that. I've spent a lot of time trying different things and have narrowed it down to a few things that seem to work. I'll see if it keeps panning out over the next few years. I can assure you cougar vocals will play a key role though.
Respectfully, Curt
44 I have a lot of respect for you as a predator hunter. Don't think I'm trying to start anything. I'm typing with a smile. It's just that in my opinion the statement regarding cougar vocals is not accurate. I've seen it work too many times to believe otherwise. I'm not claiming to be an expert or to have any special knowledge about cougar hunting but I have done a heck of a lot of calling for them with distress/ prey sounds alone vs. adding vocals to the mix. If a caller is limiting himself to only prey sounds then I can see why he would be happy "just calling a cat to your proximity". I'm not trying to push foxpro. I really don't care what caller a person buys. (Although it would certainly be a good choice. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) Foxpro is doing fine without my help.
I will say this though. I spoke with a frustrated fella that was intensely calling the exact same area I was last season. He called my house after I got my cat and wanted to know what sounds I was using and how. After being very vague with the details because I'm not going to just give away what I have many hours experimenting into, I asked what caller he was using. He said a WT. He was ready to sell it and get an FX-5. I told him I doubted switching callers was going to change his luck. Now anyone with even a little experience knows it isn't as much the caller as being in the place where the cats are. He may go in this year and call one the first day and I'll get skunked if he is in the right place and uses his caller right. Whatever caller you use though, sound selection and how you use them is critical. Foxpros cougar sounds are valuable and effective. I spoke with a another guy on the phone toward the end of last season. He didn't live here and had a new FX-5. I shared with him what worked for me. The next weekend he sent me pics of the cougar he called and harvested. He called cougars only a handful of times before that. I've spent a lot of time trying different things and have narrowed it down to a few things that seem to work. I'll see if it keeps panning out over the next few years. I can assure you cougar vocals will play a key role though.
Respectfully, Curt
Curt Barrett,
I want to point out that the member who asked for the calling tips in this thread is going for his first time .... case in point, his forum name is Novice.
Any caller of lions SHOULD know what sort of cat .... ie. Tom, Female ... with or without kittens they are seeking to call prior to using lion sounds.
Case in point:
A friend of ours is a Predation hunter for a local tribe. His call (then new to him) is loaded with lion sounds. The maker of the call personally told him to use them all ......
He has since learned first hand:
..... females don't run in on Tom sounds! (unless she's in heat)
..... females already courting a Tom ...... also don't run in on another tom.
And, females with kittens avoid Toms like sin or they won't have their tikes for long.
In my previous post.... I did not advocate never using cougar sounds ......... I suggested knowing what you were trying to call.
I would suggest that a novice going to another state to hunt for a cougar is going to be short on experienced scouting time and as such would be lucky to pick the right cat sound to throw about.
Fox Pro
I appologize for sounding like I was dissing Fox Pro. That wasn't my intent. I admire their calls for their compactness and the dual speaker feature and think the company management is outstanding in how they treat their customers!
I did hear some cougar sounds on an acquiantance's FX3 turned FX5. I would not use those that I heard on that particular unit! I have no idea what other cougar sounds that Fox Pro sells or what they sound like ..... but the ones I heard on that unit .......... I could not endorse.
The Predation hunter who is our friend uses a WT. Personally, I don't like the WT. I don't appreciate it's maker either .... fortunately, both friends that use that call do get along with him. And it's cougar sounds in my opinion are short shrifted by it's maker and the speaker furnished with the call.
But such as the WT cougar sounds are ........ they stand head and shoulders above any other commercial sounds I have heard.
AND, they are a match with the sounds I have heard around this ranch since the cats started killing our cattle.
I was on the stand when the predation hunter brought the Tom right up to the call ...... the female he was courting held up at over 400 yards, she would not budge ..... this occured at night. The female with kittens never showed herself where lion sounds played.
This predation hunter values his prey sounds more as the seasons since then have passed.
Last year, I spoke with a (well known) PH who has called in 17 cougs and was trained in Africa and has a guide business there. He said he only uses prey sounds because he does not want to call to "half" of the audience (and scare the other half away).
I don't think it's reckless to suggest to a novice to ascertain the sex and disposition of a cat before using lion sounds.
Regards
Three 44s
I want to point out that the member who asked for the calling tips in this thread is going for his first time .... case in point, his forum name is Novice.
Any caller of lions SHOULD know what sort of cat .... ie. Tom, Female ... with or without kittens they are seeking to call prior to using lion sounds.
Case in point:
A friend of ours is a Predation hunter for a local tribe. His call (then new to him) is loaded with lion sounds. The maker of the call personally told him to use them all ......
He has since learned first hand:
..... females don't run in on Tom sounds! (unless she's in heat)
..... females already courting a Tom ...... also don't run in on another tom.
And, females with kittens avoid Toms like sin or they won't have their tikes for long.
In my previous post.... I did not advocate never using cougar sounds ......... I suggested knowing what you were trying to call.
I would suggest that a novice going to another state to hunt for a cougar is going to be short on experienced scouting time and as such would be lucky to pick the right cat sound to throw about.
Fox Pro
I appologize for sounding like I was dissing Fox Pro. That wasn't my intent. I admire their calls for their compactness and the dual speaker feature and think the company management is outstanding in how they treat their customers!
I did hear some cougar sounds on an acquiantance's FX3 turned FX5. I would not use those that I heard on that particular unit! I have no idea what other cougar sounds that Fox Pro sells or what they sound like ..... but the ones I heard on that unit .......... I could not endorse.
The Predation hunter who is our friend uses a WT. Personally, I don't like the WT. I don't appreciate it's maker either .... fortunately, both friends that use that call do get along with him. And it's cougar sounds in my opinion are short shrifted by it's maker and the speaker furnished with the call.
But such as the WT cougar sounds are ........ they stand head and shoulders above any other commercial sounds I have heard.
AND, they are a match with the sounds I have heard around this ranch since the cats started killing our cattle.
I was on the stand when the predation hunter brought the Tom right up to the call ...... the female he was courting held up at over 400 yards, she would not budge ..... this occured at night. The female with kittens never showed herself where lion sounds played.
This predation hunter values his prey sounds more as the seasons since then have passed.
Last year, I spoke with a (well known) PH who has called in 17 cougs and was trained in Africa and has a guide business there. He said he only uses prey sounds because he does not want to call to "half" of the audience (and scare the other half away).
I don't think it's reckless to suggest to a novice to ascertain the sex and disposition of a cat before using lion sounds.
Regards
Three 44s
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Curt Barrett
New member
Hi 44. My first impression was you were trying to say that using cougar vocals was of no value. I apologize if I misunderstood you. I did notice NOVICE was a novice (say that 10 times real fast! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )but thought he still might benefit from knowing that lion vocals do have value when trying to call cats. He will learn by getting out and trying. You made good points that I agree with. Like I said, I'm no expert.
Anyway, have a great season.
Curt
Anyway, have a great season.
Curt
Thanks Curt,
I am certainly no expert by any stretch of the imagination.
It sure would be a lot easier if there was more general knowledge about cougars ......... of course it would not be so interesting .... would it?
If it is Ok with you I would like to PM you when I find out just which two coug sounds the guy with the upgraded FX3 to a 5 has.
I would like to cross check this to the sounds you use. I want to listen to them some more ..... it may be that they were a bad transfer ..... or???
Best Regards
Three 44s
I am certainly no expert by any stretch of the imagination.
It sure would be a lot easier if there was more general knowledge about cougars ......... of course it would not be so interesting .... would it?
If it is Ok with you I would like to PM you when I find out just which two coug sounds the guy with the upgraded FX3 to a 5 has.
I would like to cross check this to the sounds you use. I want to listen to them some more ..... it may be that they were a bad transfer ..... or???
Best Regards
Three 44s
Novice,
Glad your deer hunt was fun .... too bad you could not bag a cat as well ....... I bet the rancher is relieved though.
As cougar numbers are on the rise in MANY areas .... you ought to give some thought into following up on getting into this form of hunting. Opportunities will surely get more frequent for the foreseeable future.
Regards
Three 44s
Glad your deer hunt was fun .... too bad you could not bag a cat as well ....... I bet the rancher is relieved though.
As cougar numbers are on the rise in MANY areas .... you ought to give some thought into following up on getting into this form of hunting. Opportunities will surely get more frequent for the foreseeable future.
Regards
Three 44s
The prospect of calling a mountain lion doubtless serves to sell a bunch more electronic callers, and get newbies to the sport wired with adrenalin, but 20 years experience suggests it's not a particularly effective nor efficient method for actually seeing and removing specific mountain lions, particularly when contrasted with other ADC methods (such as the use of hounds by a professional).
One possible consequence is that ADC work with problem mountain lions will be made that much more difficult with recreational callers having little to no experience working the same areas. (Ranchers with lion experience usually know all this, however).
LionHo
One possible consequence is that ADC work with problem mountain lions will be made that much more difficult with recreational callers having little to no experience working the same areas. (Ranchers with lion experience usually know all this, however).
LionHo
Curt Barrett
New member
Yeah 44 it would be nice with some more info out there. Like you said though, it does make it more interesting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
PM would be great. I always enjoy talking with other cougar callers.
LionHo, I have to agree with you about other methods being more effective for taking care of problem cats. Calling is a poor way to control any predator. Hounds will definitely get quicker results. However I don't think recreational calling is creating any problems for those doing lion control. (At least in my area.) I've seen many times where problem cougars have received a lot of pressure from callers and then the state sends in guys with hounds and they take the animal with no problems. The hound guys are just happy to be able to use their dogs. They report that it is business as usual. No mention of calling pressure creating any problems. I guess an influx of inexperienced callers could have a negative effect for guys using calling as a form of lion control.
Now coyotes on the other hand is a different story. With the army of predator callers now marching across the land, a lot of areas have seen a big change in how to deal with coyotes. Especially where trapping has been restricted.
Take care and good hunting
PM would be great. I always enjoy talking with other cougar callers.
LionHo, I have to agree with you about other methods being more effective for taking care of problem cats. Calling is a poor way to control any predator. Hounds will definitely get quicker results. However I don't think recreational calling is creating any problems for those doing lion control. (At least in my area.) I've seen many times where problem cougars have received a lot of pressure from callers and then the state sends in guys with hounds and they take the animal with no problems. The hound guys are just happy to be able to use their dogs. They report that it is business as usual. No mention of calling pressure creating any problems. I guess an influx of inexperienced callers could have a negative effect for guys using calling as a form of lion control.
Now coyotes on the other hand is a different story. With the army of predator callers now marching across the land, a lot of areas have seen a big change in how to deal with coyotes. Especially where trapping has been restricted.
Take care and good hunting