NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy...

Thanks for your patterening results GC! I know the work involved and I appreicate it. Nothing has beat my .660 extended turkey choke yet....have some work to do with #2 shot and hope it patterns as well with that choke, I really like that choke!!
 
Ben,
You're welocme into the thread, don't worry about "hijacking." This is all informational and every positive bit helps in my opinon.

CDR,
You're right, Benelli barrels run tighter than most other makers barrels do. It would be nice to have a 28" barrel and cut it off in two inch increments, testing the same criteria along the way, chokes, loads, and along with velocity data. At around $400 per barrel for the Benelli's, unless someone donates it, I don't see it happening by me. Plus, to be consistent in the testing you'd have to thread the barrel for the chokes each time it was cut off. That'd require a skilled machinest/gunsmith. A lot of trouble, but how cool would that be?!!! Turkey Hunter Magazine did this very thing awhile back and it was interesting information. I found it interesting the tighter the choke, the higher the velocity. IIRC a cylinder bore lost nearly 100 fps velocity from a turkey tight choke, which clocked much higher than the no choke cylinder barrel. Constriction allows pressure to build, thus higher velocity. Also, all other things equal, shorter barrels were slower than longer barrels up to about 28" or so. Factory velocities are supposedly quoted from 30" barrels.

Dogboy,
I would like to test a choke around .670" to compare to the .660" and .680" that I tested already. Rhino makes a .673" for the Benelli that looks really interesting. Except for the price, at $100 per Rhino choke! I don't really know the constriction of the Carlson's for the Benelli. Wonder if anyone has that data?

Squeeze,
Actually, I mistakenly ordered a looser constriction when I ordered the .680" and did shoot a few patterns with that choke before I sent it back. It did not shoot as well as the tighter chokes. You mentioned this:

Quote:
I found a sweet spot with an older Tru-Glo
Turkey choke, versus a more restrictive Patternmaster.



Patternmaster chokes are only a Modified to Improved Modified constriction, no tighter than that. If that Tru-Glo is a turkey choke it should be considerably tighter than the Patternmaster.

I agree 100% about shooting as many combinations as possible to determine the very best rig you can assemble. I mentioned above that when I was done with the predator loads I shot the Tactical Model with 00 Buck. I had four types of 00 buckshot and shot that through five choke tubes. Improved Modified gave the absolute best patterns for me, and two types of that buckshot were much better than the other two. One of those, the Federal Premium with FliteControl wad was head and shoulders better than the closest competitor, the Hornady TAP. The Fed Premium with IM choke patterns nine 00 pellets within 8"-10" inches at 25 yards. Just about perfect for my uses on the job...
 
Question for you guys... Looking over the patterns and loads I posted - which load and choke combination would YOU choose? I haven't quite made up my mind yet...
 
GC,
I'm liking the Tactical/.680/Rem BB combo for pattern density @ 40 yards. Interestingly, my 835 has a short tube and I use a GT .680. Seems like a shorter barrel performs better with more gradual constriction?

Once you reach farther than 40yds, retained energy of pellets may begin to factor into the equation. Although the BBs do pattern real well, they may bleed off a lot of fps(energy) out past 40 yds, moreso than the larger #4 buck would. This is sheer speculation on my part, however.

Penetration tests @ 50yds with the different loads you selected would be VERY interesting to prove /disprove if that supposition is indeed accurate. I'm sure you know better than me that the pattern is only as good as how hard it is hitting...
 
here is some more pattern info on the famed dead coyote load. allright my opinion changed on dead coyote load. here is the pattern. I know it is not centered but there was a yellow flower in front of where I shot at and that was the aiming point. but check out how dense the shot is. this is actually the back side of the cardboard. I am also happy to report that this load kills yellow flowers. HeHe just for chits and giggles I went to 70 yds and shot a pattern. it hit three pellets in a 8"circle. not a 70 yd load but atleast a 60 yd load. if I wanted to waste the money I would really shoot the whole box of 10 but did not feel it was needed. 60 yds is a ways out there. and I will trust it. so is it worth the 29.00 I paid for it? every penny. the shot might not have been very good one at 70 yds beacause the dot in my scope and no rest I could have pulled it. this target was 50 yds away.

targetxe1.jpg
 
GC target #9 is my favorite. I judge the load at 40 yards and beyond to decide what I want to use.

Remember Bob's test on the plywood prior to your testing?

Most of the hevishot pellets punched through the plywood at 50 yards. That's impressive to me...

I agree with bigben that the DC load is a for sure out to 60 yards.

Based on Bob's and your testing, and one dead coyote we got at 68 yards, I'm convinced it's an excellent load.
 
The No. 4BK and Dead Coyote are contenders for top spots for me. The HD-BB load looks real good out to 40 yards or so too. I had high hopes for the HD-T load, but it just never came together for me. I'm leaning heavily toward the Dead Coyote for the increased penetration at longer ranges. But, I think I may need to tweak the choke...
 
Yep the DC will be my primary in terrain that allows 50 plus yard shots, backed up by 3" 4 buck. Some areas I call the old standard 2 3/4 shell will still do the trick.

I think it would be smart if Remington lowered their prices some if they want to compete with hevishot. I won't pay their prices when I can buy something that is cheaper and does better or just as well as their product. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I think the hevishot B's or 2's are not out of the running either, as their prices are way lower than the DC or HD stuff.

I agree the HD BB load looked good on your tests.

I think you should break open the piggy bank and buy at least one Carlsons choke, since it will fit both your Benelli's.

I'd be real surprised if it didn't do as good or better than the chokes you have now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif And their only $30. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
GC thanks for kicking off a great thread! Thanks to all the other knowledgeable shotgunners as well.

Massachusetts has just increased the legal shot size to 243 (number 4 buck) for coyotes, so I've been reading alot on shotguns.

This thread has good real world groups, loads and chokes and how they work together. Helps a perspective shotgunner (me) to at least make a good first attempt at getting in the ballpark.

I'm a rifle guy, so this post is most helpful to getting a handle on whats REALLY going on in the shotgun world. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
GC, We have shot several hundred pounds of Hevi Shot at Canada geese over the years, almost all of it in handloads. Using browning and winchester guns (Slightly overbore compared to yours) we have been able to get 55% patterns in a 30" circle at 100yds. And this is not internet hype. One thing we learned in our testing is that Tungsten tended to pattern very inconsistantly with vented choke tubes. We settled on a patternmaster .695. This is quite less choke than you are using. Our loads use Ballistic Products TPS wads, Hard felt fillers, a mylar shot wrap, and buffer. They have all been 3-1/2" 12ga, and 1-3/4 to 1-7/8oz of the overpriced shot in a Federal hull. Guess the point of this is try an extended, non-ported tube in the constriction you're having the best results with. You just may find that you lose some flyers, and the pattern is more consistant from shot to shot.
 
Cat Slayer,
I'm listening... with a couple of things for us to ponder. Aren't Patternmaster's also ported/vented chokes? The ports on the Kick's chokes mostly serve to strip the shotcup from the shot. Just as the internal bumps in the Patternmaster choke does. Supposedly, the angled ports of the Kick's chokes also serve to keep escaping gases from colliding with the rear of the exiting shot so that doesn't disrupt the shot at a very critical time/place. Can you expand on your thoughts as to why a non-ported choke would pattern better than a ported one, and, how is it that the ported Patternmaster is the choke you settled on as best in your testing, given your advise above? I am not being a smart aleck, I am sincerely interested in your reply. Maybe a non-ported Carlson's choke would give better results. I need to know the constriction though. I might try a Teague Choke. They are a long extended non-ported British choke that has a tapered constriction. I like the thought of the taper constriction, and, the Brit's do know a thing or two about shotgunning.

The difference between wingshooting and predator calling is that just like a turkey hunter, we want a more center dense pattern, rather than an evenly distributed pattern for catching flying critters with a few pellets. We need to concentrate many shot into a narrow cone to perforate the relatively small vitals of a coyote. Again, just like a turkey hunter concentrating on a gobblers head/neck. 30" circles do us little good other than to verify the pattern is on point of aim.

One thing many will overlook is that the .680" choke from the tight Benelli barrel isn't as constricting as it would be in other makers barrels as they are larger internal diameters than the Benelli barrels. Especially so the overbored barrels of some makers. Screw the same choke onto an overbored barrel and you have a much more abrupt constriction for the shot load. Usually Benelli barrels require a slight bit more choke (tighter) to get similar pattern results to other makers.

And BTW, I still am not satisfied with my long range results and plan to tinker with choke constrictions. That's the fun of it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
GC The tubes we have are slick as a baby's butt inside with no dimples. Maybe they're an older style. I always loved Kick's chokes for steel shot. Patterned great. Less muzzle jump. Not with tungsten. We have a company here in Arkansas called Angle Port (Ballistic Specialties). They're in Batesville. Played with their chokes both ported and unported. Same thing, ported chokes did thicken the center somewhat more than unported. However, shot to shot was terrible. Patterns were never round, and would have holes... Reminds me of when we used to use lead and too much velocity for the hardness would "Blow the pattern". Yes, you will get less central thickening w/o the vents. I'm pretty sure of this. However, I'll bet the pellet count in the inner circle will be much more consistant, and probably higher. One thing's for sure, in my guns the whole pattern has been smaller and rounder. You should be getting about 80% in a 30" circle at 60yds with the right choke. That will kill anything, duck, goose, turkey, or coyote. If you can't with an unvented tube, send me a pm, I'll turn you on to some unbelieveable handloads... You might have to buy a 3-1/2" gun though...
 
Edit:
I have served my one month "ban", and I'll gladly take my permanent ban whenever dictator Redfrog is ready. Thank you.

Wise up boys and girls. Redfrog needs to be kicked to the curb.
 
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No, none of that. Slick inside with about 1/2" // section. Maybe I have brands mixed up, but I don't think so. I have several. I had a sp10 for awhile, sold it. If you've gone the BP route with TPS wads, mythick, mix47, etc. My best suggestion is to call the guys in batesville or Briley. You can send them the gun, some handloads, and some green stuff. They can lengthen the forcing cone, and make a tube to fit the barrel. tell them what you want. They will make a tube that starts bore size, and is overly choked. Then they will pattern it, ream a little, pattern, ream a little etc.
I've had best results with Hevi-Shot around 1300fps. The only powder to use is "Steel"
 
Edit:
I have served my one month "ban", and I'll gladly take my permanent ban whenever dictator Redfrog is ready. Thank you.

Wise up boys and girls. Redfrog needs to be kicked to the curb.
 
Last edited:
Edit:
I have served my one month "ban", and I'll gladly take my permanent ban whenever dictator Redfrog is ready. Thank you.

Wise up boys and girls. Redfrog needs to be kicked to the curb.
 
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Cat Slayer,
Every PatternMaster I've ever seen had the dimples inside. You also said something about the choke being .695" and I've never seen or heard of a PatternMaster that tight. Check that choke and let us know what you've got.

Joel,
Fifty yards isn't a "gimme" is it? It can be done, and more, with just the right combination. I'm thinking of 3" .12 gauges now. Most of us aren't lucky enough to just fall into that without some real work involved. Lot's of "blue sky" stories about long distance 70, and even 80 - 100+ yard shotgunning floating around. There is a problem obtaining decent patterns at those ranges, plus the consideration of pellet energy and penetration. Coyotes are tough little buggers. Shotguns don't make for great blood trails on thick furred critters, and, soft feet don't much for tracks in a lot of thick cover country. It's a shame newbie predator shotgunners have to wade through all that stuff and find out the hard way that 70+ yards for the typical rig off the shelf is out of the question. The good news is that it is pretty easy to get a solid 40 yard rig without too much trouble. My dad and I were reviewing our shotgun shots from the last several years and I think 40 yards, maybe a bit less, is about the average shot distance for us. I've had some closer, a few that were too close and required a tight hold so as not to miss. Some farther, with a few over the 50 yard line. Some of them you have to give another dose or two of lead before they figure out they're shot and should give up the ghost. Shot angles certainly have something to do with that, as well as distance. Head on isn't a great angle, going straight away is a terrible angle - especially at longish ranges.
 
GC,

I just got through reading this entire thread and think you pretty well summed it up in your last post. I agree that 50 yards is not a gimme, and to find a combination that will reliably do it sometimes takes a lot of effort/chokes/ and ammunition, even then some luck mixed in don't hurt. On any shotgunned coyote I always plan on giving him another dose or two, especially on the longer shots. I would say my average shotgunned coyote is less than 40 yards and don't need a second shot but over 40 they sometimes do and experience has taught me that when in doubt give him some more. I've even been known to cut the distance a few yards before giving him another.

On deciding between the heavy weig
 
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