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#3202309 - 04/26/19 01:38 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
Matlock Online
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/15/15
Posts: 955
Loc: ID - Idaho
The age old saying "pictures are worth a 1000 words" seems more appropriate than ever. I'm so stocked up on copper-plated #4, I probably won't switch any time soon, but this is great info nonetheless. Thanks for posting.

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#3202320 - 04/26/19 02:56 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: derbyacresbob]
johral Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 487
Loc: WA
Thanks for the pics - definitely explains it. The BPI Shot that I heat treated runs about 22 Bhn, which is about 3-4 times harder than before it is heat treated. The Nickel Plated stuff from Precision Reloading was as soft as pure lead and not worth using (smaller shot is hard, magnum shot, but the larger is cheap field shot).

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#3202356 - 04/26/19 11:37 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16460
Loc: Missouri
They really shouldn't call the shot "plated." It's a soft wash, just like a rimfire "jacketed" bullet. You can scrape the plating off with your thumbnail. One time after having a bobcat hang up on me at 65 yards I got curious what might have happened if I would have taken the shot. I paced off 65 long steps and set a 20 ounce plastic water bottle on a blown down tree. At the shot the bottle flew off the tree and I knew some pellets hit home. If I remember right four pellets from the 3" No. Four Buck caught the bottle. The most interesting thing was one of the pellets hit exactly on a ridge moulded into the bottle and was laying inside the bottle flattened out about like a 5 cent piece. That's pretty soft. Later I pulled a shell apart and discovered just how thin and soft that plating actually is.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3202524 - 04/29/19 11:08 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
johral Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 487
Loc: WA
The BPI is supposed to actually be plated, but since I can heat treat the standard shot from BPI I won't be buying the plated. It varies in size more than the standard shot and I don't want to mess with what has been working.

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#3202527 - 04/29/19 11:34 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
DAA Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 5230
Loc: Salt Lake City
Some shot recovered from a phone book, including the BPI nickel plated F, these were at 50 yards.




And from 60 yards.




And the 60 yard penetration data.






I do prefer the NP F over 4B for the higher pellet count and better pattern density. If I'm not running something HTL, it's NP F.

- DAA

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#3202531 - 04/29/19 12:27 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4420
Loc: Kern County, CA
Dave are one of those Dead Coyote "T" shot pellets broken in half?

I have noticed that some of the Hevi-Shot "T" shot and buckshot are advertised as frangible. I don't think that they were originally frangible.

I don't understand why they would want big shotgun pellets to break into smaller pieces when they hit something hard.

Thanks for posting that total pages penetrated chart, it is very impressive!
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Foxpro Field Staff

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#3202533 - 04/29/19 12:56 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
DAA Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 5230
Loc: Salt Lake City
Bob, yup, several of the recovered DC T shot were broken.

If you think of that total pages as total wound channel, which essentially it is, those numbers are pretty astonishing.

- DAA

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#3202547 - 04/29/19 06:12 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16460
Loc: Missouri
Environ Metal has changed the composition of the Dead Coyote pellets at times throughout production. At one time the pellets were so brittle they would break into a grayish dust when hitting dense muscle or bone. It was documented here with skinned coyote pictures years ago. I have easily crushed Dead Coyote T pellets with a small pair of pliers.
EM also has the annoying tendency of changing components in the load at times. At times the wad or shot buffering materials have changed. That can play heck on patterns. All that after investing time and money to find a combination that maximizes your gun, choke and the original version of the shell. Then with no notice nothing works the same and it's back to the patterning board. Never been a fan of Dead Coyote shells. Turkey hunters have had the same issues with EM turkey loads. Maybe EM has tightened up QC and things are better in current production shells?
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3202555 - 04/29/19 07:20 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4420
Loc: Kern County, CA
EMI or Hevi-Shot is the most dishonest ammo manufacturer I have ever seen or heard of.

Not to long ago I was watching a goose hunting show on TV when a EMI commercial came up. During this commercial they talked about how Hevi-Shot was heavier than lead and how it out performs lead shot, they went on and on about how great Hevi-Shot is.

But during this commercial they kept showing boxes of Hevi-X shells. They never mentioned that Hevi-Shot ammo comes in boxes of ten shells and costs about $4.50 per shell. They kept showing the boxes of Hevi-X that come in boxes of 25 shells and they sell for about $1.30 per shell.

Hevi-X shot is not as dense or heavy as lead. So while they were showing boxes of Hevi-X ammo they were talking about the performance of the original Hevi-Shot. So they are trying to trick you into buying the cheaper and not nearly as good Hevi-X ammo by getting you to think it was the good Hevi-Shot.

There is also some commercials for the EMI Hevi-X loads on the goose hunting shows and they say Hevi-X will change the industry and it is just plain nasty and they have never seen anything like it. So EMI or Hevi-Shot is saying that the Hevi-X loads that are not as dense as lead and cost 66% less than Hevi-Shot loads do, but they are really nasty and they have never seen anything like it! LOL

They make it sound like being just plain nasty and never seen anything like it, was a compliment.


EMI did the same thing with Hevi-Metal ammo. They claimed it was Hevi-Shot duplexed with steel shot. But there never was Hevi-Shot put into the Hevi-Metal ammo it was Hevi-Metal shot duplexed with steel shot. With Hevi-Metal loads if you buy #3 shot, it is the steel shot that is #3 shot. The Hevi-Metal shot is quite a bit smaller in size so unless you take the shells apart to see what size it is you don't know what you are shooting.

The new Hevi-Steel loads are just plain steel shot. EMI quit making the Hevi-Steel loads many years ago that were denser than steel shot. Hevi-Steel was closer to being about as dense as Bismuth shot.

Why did they use the same name on just plain steel shot when they started making steel shot loads? There is nothing Hevi about the steel shot in the new Hevi-Steel loads.
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Foxpro Field Staff

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#3202558 - 04/29/19 08:20 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16460
Loc: Missouri
Ever look under the hood of their blended size shot turkey loads? Buy the 5/6/7 blended load and find a bunch of 8 or 9 size shot? Patterns great! frown
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3202616 - 04/30/19 07:46 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: derbyacresbob]
johral Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 487
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbob
If the density of the shot is close to being the same the hard shot will out penetrate softer shot that deforms more when it hits something.



The shot in the above pictures is shot I removed from catalogs when I did some penetration testing.

If I could shoot lead shot at the 25 pound to 35 pound coyotes we have around here I would be reloading the lead BBB or lead T shot that BPI sells.


Does BBB and T take a more open choke like #4 Buck or do they perform well at tighter chokes? I need to order shot soon, so I may try BBB or T, but I don't want to end up having to buy another choke. I am running a Kick's GT 0.670 now and it has patterned well with BB.


Edited by johral (04/30/19 07:53 PM)

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#3202619 - 04/30/19 09:17 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16460
Loc: Missouri
Depends upon shot material and the actual constriction your choke is giving you from your barrel diameter.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3202621 - 04/30/19 09:52 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
johral Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 487
Loc: WA
I'm using lead (but I will be heat treating it) and I believe the Benelli has a 0.725 bore. I know it's a crap shoot anyway, and will have to pattern it.


Edited by johral (04/30/19 09:53 PM)

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#3202622 - 04/30/19 09:57 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16460
Loc: Missouri
I think given that the .670" would be a good starting place.
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3202626 - 04/30/19 10:05 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
johral Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 487
Loc: WA
Thanks

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