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#3159513 - 08/17/18 09:14 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: LARUEminati]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 1713
Loc: so.mn
Battlestick how long was the barrel before chopped? Did you shoot any patterns before rethreading for chokes?

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#3168572 - 10/25/18 01:21 AM Ever try Winchester? [Re: GC]
Shotgun505 Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/22/18
Posts: 3
Loc: New Mexico
I admire such a technical approach. I once patterned the Winchester Varmint-X 12 gauge 3" 1 1/2 oz. BB shotshell vs. some of my favorite 4 Buck loads. I would never attempt to talk a man out of 4 Buck. I would never attempt to talk a man (who can afford it) out of Hevi-Shot Dead Coyote. At a time when I couldn't find any 3 1/2" 4 Buck shotshells, I gave the new Winchester loads a try. I regret to say that I have deleted my target pictures from the day I patterned this load. I am happy to say that every coyote I shot with it through a Benelli factory modified choke tube died where I shot it. Granted, they may not have been 50+ yards away. My point is that I have good luck with it in the fields and think it might be an interesting addition to your patterning data. Good luck!
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#3172062 - 11/16/18 04:58 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: spotstalkshoot]
battlestick Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Texas
Sorry, haven’t had the time to be playing much lately. I am hopeful to get out soon and finish the patterning for my 1.75oz loads I just put together.

It was a 26” barrel (IIRC) prior to chopping, and I did not shoot any TSS patterns prior to cutting it either.


Edited by battlestick (11/16/18 04:59 PM)
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#3174834 - 12/01/18 02:18 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: battlestick]
desertcj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/02/15
Posts: 349
Loc: West
I don't need to be making 70yd shots, but what do you guys think about Hevishot #2? Pretty sure it would rock on Fox,but how far on coyotes? My only other reasonably priced option for reloads is ITX 13 #2? I'm thinking probably 50-60yds on fox depending on pattern and maybe 40yds on coyotes?

Unfortunately, the best load I have right now are 3" 1 3/4oz #5 hevi-13s. At least they pattern great for me at 40yds...


Edited by desertcj (12/01/18 02:46 PM)

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#3174842 - 12/01/18 03:03 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: GC]
desertcj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/02/15
Posts: 349
Loc: West
I also came across something a while back that seemed interesting while looking at "flight control" wads. A "droge"? Not sure on the spelling. They took an unslit wad and drilled a hole in the base. Then took a tampon and put the string through the base and tied a knot as a stopper. I imagine the cotton wad would be sandwiched between the wad and a gas seal. Basically, the cotton wad would act like a parachute on the wad and the unslit wad would hold the shot together inside until the parachute pulled it off the back. Interesting idea at least...

Found it... http://underhammers.blogspot.com/2011/09/forsyth-rifling-forgotten-magic.html

About 3/4 down the page.


Edited by desertcj (12/01/18 08:36 PM)

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#3175080 - 12/02/18 02:51 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: desertcj]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4454
Loc: Kern County, CA
Originally Posted By: desertcj
I don't need to be making 70yd shots, but what do you guys think about Hevishot #2? Pretty sure it would rock on Fox,but how far on coyotes? My only other reasonably priced option for reloads is ITX 13 #2? I'm thinking probably 50-60yds on fox depending on pattern and maybe 40yds on coyotes?

Unfortunately, the best load I have right now are 3" 1 3/4oz #5 hevi-13s. At least they pattern great for me at 40yds...


The Hevi-Shot #5 shot may pattern good but it won't penetrate deep enough to be a good coyote load unless you make head shots.

Bucks Run Sports Supply sells HW13 BB shot and HW13 T shot that is lead free and it works great on coyotes. I prefer the HW13 because it has about 20 more pellets per 1-1/2 oz load over the HW13 T shot.

To order from Bucks Run Sports Supply you have to call them.1-507-356-2195.

Hevi-Shot #2 shot would not be as good as HW13 BB shot for breaking down and killing coyotes.

Hevi-Shot # 5 shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 8.9 yards.
Hevi-Shot # 2 shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 31.3 yards.
HW13 BB shot at 1300 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 62.4 yards.
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#3175163 - 12/02/18 07:43 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: GC]
desertcj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/02/15
Posts: 349
Loc: West
Thanks for the reply. Although that puts a downer on my plans. I'm guessing HW13 BB shot costs an arm and a leg. My other thought was to use ITX10 #4 buck. Yes, I know it's worse than lead. Maybe about like lead BB?

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#3178653 - 12/17/18 10:12 AM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: GC]
desertcj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/02/15
Posts: 349
Loc: West
What powder are you handloaders using for your shells? I'm looking at 1 1/2oz, 3" loads and I've found data for Blue Dot, Steel, Long Shot and IMR Blue. IMR Blue is the fastest burning and I thought that might be good for my 20" barrel? With a shotgun, are they sometimes picky about powders to where I should try 3 or 4 like a rifle? Sticking with Blue Dot would be cheaper and easier since it can be used in reduced rifle loads as well.

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#3178682 - 12/17/18 12:04 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: GC]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4454
Loc: Kern County, CA
I am using Steel powder for my denser than lead tungsten alloy coyote loads. Many of the old Steel powder loads are way over MAX pressure with the Steel powder that is being sold now.

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...2894&page=1
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#3178686 - 12/17/18 12:42 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: derbyacresbob]
desertcj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/02/15
Posts: 349
Loc: West
Thanks! I bought the BPI ITX manual, but it doesn't have much or any 1 1/2oz data. I guess they are big on light fast loads...

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#3178691 - 12/17/18 01:14 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: desertcj]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4454
Loc: Kern County, CA
Originally Posted By: desertcj
Thanks! I bought the BPI ITX manual, but it doesn't have much or any 1 1/2oz data. I guess they are big on light fast loads...


There is not much Hevi-Shot, HW13 shot or ITX13 shot data available. None of these shot types need to be going over 1300 fps.
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#3178731 - 12/17/18 03:44 PM Re: Ever try Winchester? [Re: GC]
desertcj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/02/15
Posts: 349
Loc: West
Anyone care to double check my estimates? I'm not holding any one responsible for my actions. I've come up with powder charges of 35gr of Blue Dot, 35gr of IMR Blue, 28gr of Longshot, 29gr of Steel all with 1 1/2 oz of hevishot or ITX with 3" TPS wads in 3" Fiochi hulls.

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#3183850 - 01/08/19 12:41 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: derbyacresbob]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4454
Loc: Kern County, CA
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbob
Not to long ago some friends of mine and I bought a bunch of 3-1/2" Federal Heavyweight #5, 1-7/8 oz Turkey loads just to take the shot out of them. After I loaded all of the #5 shot in 2-3/4" hulls for hunting geese I had a bunch of 3-1/2" Federal hulls with the primer powder and FLITECONTROL wads in them.

I loaded up some of these factory hulls with different weight shot charges in them and sent them off to Precision Reloading for testing.

The pressures were well below MAX pressure for 3-1/2" shells so I figured I needed to buy some HW13 BB shot to load up in all the 3-1/2" hulls I had.

I weighed some shot charges and counted the pellets and 86 pellets averaged out to be about a 1/2 pellet or a full pellet below 1-7/8 oz of shot. So I set up a shotgun primer tray to count out 86 HW13 BB pellets.
IMG_8231 by Robert Morris, on Flickr
With 43 open holes in the primer tray two BB pellets will fit in each hole. So this was a very quick way to scoop up some shot and come up with 86 pellets to put in each shell.

IMG_8230 by Robert Morris, on Flickr
Here are some of the hulls ready to be crimped.

IMG_8242 by Robert Morris, on Flickr
Here is what the finished shells look like.

Today I went to our little trap range a little early and shot two shells just to see what they patterned like. I shot one shell with a Mod choke and one shell with a IMP/MOD choke. The IMP/MOD was a little tighter and looked better to me than the Mod choke pattern.
IMG_8428 by Robert Morris, on Flickr
The IMP/MOD choke put 27 HW13 BB pellets in the 9" circle I was shooting at at 40 yards.

I found one of the FLITECONTROL wads at the 40 yard pattern board and the other wad about 10 yards past the 40 yard pattern board.
IMG_8443 by Robert Morris, on Flickr

I am pretty sure these 86 pellet loads of HW13 BB shot are going to be bad news for the coyotes.


Yesterday I took the shot out of 48 Federal Heavyweight BB Coyote 3" 1-1/2 oz factory loads. I plan on loading this Federal Heavyweight BB shot in some of the 3-1/2" Federal Heavyweight 1-7/8 oz Turkey load hulls that I have. The 3" 1-1/2 oz loads have 62 FHW BB pellets per shell. I was only able to get 73 Federal Heavyweight BB pellets to be very close to 1-7/8 oz of shot.

That shows you just how heavy or dense the 15g/cc FHW shot is. 1-7/8 oz of FHW BB shot has 73 pellets and 1-7/8 oz of HW13 BB has 86 pellets.

Look below at the yardage increase the 15g/cc FHW BB shot has over the 12g/cc HW13 BB shot.

HW13 BB shot at 1225 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 57.7 yards

Fed HW BB shot at 1225 fps gets 3.70" of gel penetration at 94.6 yards.


I have shot some coyotes with the 3-1/2" 1-7/8 oz HW13 BB loads through my Rem Versa Max and I was surprised that I didn't notice a increase in recoil over the 3" 1-1/2 oz loads I have been shooting. If I shoot at some pattern paper I will probably notice a increase in recoil! LOL


Edited by derbyacresbob (01/08/19 06:46 PM)
Edit Reason: added info
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#3202262 - 04/25/19 10:48 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
johral Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 487
Loc: WA
What penetrates better, Nickel Plated Shot or HARD shot? I tested some different shot, and I was amazed how soft the Nickel Plated stuff was...way softer than Super Buck from BPI. I heat treated some of the Super Buck, and it gets REALLY hard. I know most of you guys are using the more modern stuff, butI still have a ton of lead shot left, so I have not ventured into the realm of TSS or Hevi Shot.

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#3202305 - 04/26/19 12:42 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: johral]
derbyacresbob Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 4454
Loc: Kern County, CA
If the density of the shot is close to being the same the hard shot will out penetrate softer shot that deforms more when it hits something.

IMG_1977 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/][/url], on Flickr

The shot in the above pictures is shot I removed from catalogs when I did some penetration testing.

Copper coated lead number 4 buck in the first row.
Hevi-Shot "T" shot in the second row.
Remington Wingmaster HD BB shot on the left side of the 3rd row.
Copper coated lead BB shot are the 2 pellets on the right end of the 3rd row.
Remington Wingmaster #2 shot in the 4th row.
Hevi-Shot "B" shot are in the 5th or bottom row.

You can see how mangled up the copper coated lead number 4 buck and BB shot are compared to the other hard tungsten alloy shot types. The Hevi-Shot "B" shot is deformed and not round before it is shot or hits anything.

When I first started shooting coyotes with the Rem HD BB shot I was breaking coyote bones at least 3 to 4 times more often than I did when I shot the softer copper coated lead BB shot at coyotes.

I know that the higher density of the Rem HD BB shot helped penetrate deeper but the shot that doesn't deform when it hits bone is going to break bones more often.

Look at the size of the Hevi-Shot "T" shot in the 2nd row and compare it to the size of the Rem HD BB shot on the left side of the 3rd row. In 1-1/2 oz loads the Rem HD BB shot had 70 pellets and the Hevi-Shot "T" shot had 50 pellets.

I am still convinced that the Rem HD BB load with 70 pellets and the Federal Heavyweight BB load with 62 pellets are much better coyote loads than the Hevi-Shot "T" shot Dead Coyotes loads that only have 50 pellets per shell.

If I could shoot lead shot at the 25 pound to 35 pound coyotes we have around here I would be reloading the lead BBB or lead T shot that BPI sells.
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