Christensen Arms

Predator Masters using UBB.threads ™ Infopop Corporation.
PM Gear Moon & Weather

Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums
Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at





PM Gear
PM Gear
PM Gear
The Official Predator Masters Search Engine
Search Predator Masters

Page 2 of 99 < 1 2 3 4 ... 98 99 >
Topic Options
#777366 - 10/16/07 01:38 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: CDR]
bigben Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 1049
Loc: carlisle PA
not to high jack your thread but, here are some targets from the gun pictured in the bottom. barrel is a 18.5 inch cylnder barrel I picked up at a yard sale and I made a choke with a .690 constriction and this is what I got. the first one was the #4 buck remington 3" 41 pellet load and the bottom one was a BB 3" federal load it had 2oz of shot in it. the circle is roughly 4" wide and the cardboard was 24X24. both shot at 40 yds.




Top
#777367 - 10/16/07 01:42 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: bigben]
bigben Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 1049
Loc: carlisle PA
and thanks for doing this little test. bet your shoulder hurts.

Top
#777368 - 10/17/07 07:39 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
CDR Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 980
Loc: Ohio, USA
One thing I read, and this was supposed to have been taken from a factory email reply to an inquiry on the subject ...... Benelli bore ID tolerance runs from .721" to .728". So you are not necessarily just testing the effects of barrel length differences, unless you have also had your bore ID's mic'd to verify they are the same. I have read, most run close to .723" ID, but one of your guns could be oversized or undersized as compared to the other.
_________________________
"Sir, I never take a chance when shooting waterfowl... I believe in hitting him very hard with big shot from a big gun....." -Nash Buckingham

Top
#777369 - 10/17/07 10:40 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: CDR]
Dogboy Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 6010
Loc: Oak Hills, Ca
GC many thanks for your detailed and comprehensive testing.

Wish I could of let you barrow my Carlsons DC choke for testing out of your Benelli's. Are you considering investing in one of the Carlsons????

I'm looking forward to the velocity tests between barrels though.

Interesting how on several of your targets you have several pellets touching or in close proximity to each other at various ranges. Fatal for the coyote if they are vital hits.

I don't think the HD in T has much potential, but the BB load looks good thanks to your testing and Bob's plate test.

I still think the 3" 4 buck and DC loads will be our best individual or combination of both loads for us in the field.

Shotguns are just plain fun in tight cover hunting, but for sure you must be ready for a follow up shot on these tuff predators if your shot is off the mark.

Thanks again for your detailed and expensive test..


Edited by Dogboy (10/17/07 10:42 AM)

Top
#777370 - 10/17/07 12:00 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: Dogboy]
Squeeze Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 2459
Loc: NW, Wi
I am not sure how far to open up the choke, but some of your
data suggests less restriction may improve pattern density.
I did a fair amount of pattern testing on some 10 ga.
Hevishot loads I developed for turkeys, and with the very
hard Hevishot, I found a sweet spot with an older Tru-Glo
Turkey choke, versus a more restrictive Patternmaster.
My brother also has a Browning Gold 10, and was using the
Patternmaster. His results, also showed poorer patterns
on both Hevishot, and Copper plated lead. He borrowed
my old Tru-Glo choke, and ended up having his gun guy search
for the out of production Tru-Glo, and now uses that choke
tube for turkeys, with both lead, and various Tungsten alloy
shots. Just a thought on something to look at. With little
to no shot deformation in the harder shots, the idea is less
choke gets more pellets heading straight down range versus
jamming in the tight choke tube, and getting "spun" out in
a slight arc. There is a sweet spot in the choke
restriction versus tungsten alloy shot pattern, though.
I tried my regular Browning Mod, Full, and Extra Full choke
tubes, and the results were poorer than the more restrictive
Tru-Glo. As for the exact measurements of the chokes, I
would have to check my data, in my loading shop, but the
bottom line is test all chokes available to you, even in
less restrictive chokes, with tungsten alloy shot. One will
jump out at you, especially at the 40 to 60 yard range.

Squeeze
_________________________

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Top
#777371 - 10/17/07 02:22 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: Squeeze]
berettaman Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 3182
Loc: Southeastern KY
Thanks for your patterening results GC! I know the work involved and I appreicate it. Nothing has beat my .660 extended turkey choke yet....have some work to do with #2 shot and hope it patterns as well with that choke, I really like that choke!!

Top
#777372 - 10/17/07 03:20 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: berettaman]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16551
Loc: Missouri
Ben,
You're welocme into the thread, don't worry about "hijacking." This is all informational and every positive bit helps in my opinon.

CDR,
You're right, Benelli barrels run tighter than most other makers barrels do. It would be nice to have a 28" barrel and cut it off in two inch increments, testing the same criteria along the way, chokes, loads, and along with velocity data. At around $400 per barrel for the Benelli's, unless someone donates it, I don't see it happening by me. Plus, to be consistent in the testing you'd have to thread the barrel for the chokes each time it was cut off. That'd require a skilled machinest/gunsmith. A lot of trouble, but how cool would that be?!!! Turkey Hunter Magazine did this very thing awhile back and it was interesting information. I found it interesting the tighter the choke, the higher the velocity. IIRC a cylinder bore lost nearly 100 fps velocity from a turkey tight choke, which clocked much higher than the no choke cylinder barrel. Constriction allows pressure to build, thus higher velocity. Also, all other things equal, shorter barrels were slower than longer barrels up to about 28" or so. Factory velocities are supposedly quoted from 30" barrels.

Dogboy,
I would like to test a choke around .670" to compare to the .660" and .680" that I tested already. Rhino makes a .673" for the Benelli that looks really interesting. Except for the price, at $100 per Rhino choke! I don't really know the constriction of the Carlson's for the Benelli. Wonder if anyone has that data?

Squeeze,
Actually, I mistakenly ordered a looser constriction when I ordered the .680" and did shoot a few patterns with that choke before I sent it back. It did not shoot as well as the tighter chokes. You mentioned this:

Quote:

I found a sweet spot with an older Tru-Glo
Turkey choke, versus a more restrictive Patternmaster.




Patternmaster chokes are only a Modified to Improved Modified constriction, no tighter than that. If that Tru-Glo is a turkey choke it should be considerably tighter than the Patternmaster.

I agree 100% about shooting as many combinations as possible to determine the very best rig you can assemble. I mentioned above that when I was done with the predator loads I shot the Tactical Model with 00 Buck. I had four types of 00 buckshot and shot that through five choke tubes. Improved Modified gave the absolute best patterns for me, and two types of that buckshot were much better than the other two. One of those, the Federal Premium with FliteControl wad was head and shoulders better than the closest competitor, the Hornady TAP. The Fed Premium with IM choke patterns nine 00 pellets within 8"-10" inches at 25 yards. Just about perfect for my uses on the job...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#777373 - 10/17/07 03:43 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16551
Loc: Missouri
Question for you guys... Looking over the patterns and loads I posted - which load and choke combination would YOU choose? I haven't quite made up my mind yet...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#777374 - 10/17/07 04:08 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
rkite Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 335
Loc: Arlington, Virginia

I would say the Federal Premium 4 Buck loads. The patterns were as good as Dead Coyote and I would imagine are significantly less expensive.

I patterned with a .670 and .690 Trulock tubes with cheapo Federal 2 3/4 BB, 3" Remington Express 4 Buck and OO Buck loads. Next I am going to try Federal Premium 4 Buck.

Here were my results --> http://rodney.davisnetworks.com/web/patterns/buckshotPatterns.html
_________________________
Pre-64 Model 94 Win 30-30,
Post 64 Model 70 Featherweight 270 Win,
Remington Spartan Combo 12/.308

Top
#777375 - 10/17/07 04:25 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
GC,
I'm liking the Tactical/.680/Rem BB combo for pattern density @ 40 yards. Interestingly, my 835 has a short tube and I use a GT .680. Seems like a shorter barrel performs better with more gradual constriction?

Once you reach farther than 40yds, retained energy of pellets may begin to factor into the equation. Although the BBs do pattern real well, they may bleed off a lot of fps(energy) out past 40 yds, moreso than the larger #4 buck would. This is sheer speculation on my part, however.

Penetration tests @ 50yds with the different loads you selected would be VERY interesting to prove /disprove if that supposition is indeed accurate. I'm sure you know better than me that the pattern is only as good as how hard it is hitting...

Top
#777376 - 10/17/07 07:04 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: knockemdown]
bigben Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/22/04
Posts: 1049
Loc: carlisle PA
here is some more pattern info on the famed dead coyote load. allright my opinion changed on dead coyote load. here is the pattern. I know it is not centered but there was a yellow flower in front of where I shot at and that was the aiming point. but check out how dense the shot is. this is actually the back side of the cardboard. I am also happy to report that this load kills yellow flowers. HeHe just for chits and giggles I went to 70 yds and shot a pattern. it hit three pellets in a 8"circle. not a 70 yd load but atleast a 60 yd load. if I wanted to waste the money I would really shoot the whole box of 10 but did not feel it was needed. 60 yds is a ways out there. and I will trust it. so is it worth the 29.00 I paid for it? every penny. the shot might not have been very good one at 70 yds beacause the dot in my scope and no rest I could have pulled it. this target was 50 yds away.


Top
#777377 - 10/17/07 09:29 PM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: bigben]
Dogboy Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 6010
Loc: Oak Hills, Ca
GC target #9 is my favorite. I judge the load at 40 yards and beyond to decide what I want to use.

Remember Bob's test on the plywood prior to your testing?

Most of the hevishot pellets punched through the plywood at 50 yards. That's impressive to me...

I agree with bigben that the DC load is a for sure out to 60 yards.

Based on Bob's and your testing, and one dead coyote we got at 68 yards, I'm convinced it's an excellent load.

Top
#777378 - 10/18/07 09:23 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: Dogboy]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16551
Loc: Missouri
The No. 4BK and Dead Coyote are contenders for top spots for me. The HD-BB load looks real good out to 40 yards or so too. I had high hopes for the HD-T load, but it just never came together for me. I'm leaning heavily toward the Dead Coyote for the increased penetration at longer ranges. But, I think I may need to tweak the choke...
_________________________
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

Top
#777379 - 10/18/07 09:42 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: GC]
Dogboy Offline
PM is my life

Registered: 04/22/01
Posts: 6010
Loc: Oak Hills, Ca
Yep the DC will be my primary in terrain that allows 50 plus yard shots, backed up by 3" 4 buck. Some areas I call the old standard 2 3/4 shell will still do the trick.

I think it would be smart if Remington lowered their prices some if they want to compete with hevishot. I won't pay their prices when I can buy something that is cheaper and does better or just as well as their product.

I think the hevishot B's or 2's are not out of the running either, as their prices are way lower than the DC or HD stuff.

I agree the HD BB load looked good on your tests.

I think you should break open the piggy bank and buy at least one Carlsons choke, since it will fit both your Benelli's.

I'd be real surprised if it didn't do as good or better than the chokes you have now... And their only $30.

Top
#777380 - 10/18/07 11:39 AM Re: NEW Shotgun Pattern Test Results - Detail & Pic' heavy... [Re: Dogboy]
sleddogg Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 2103
Loc: Granville, Ma
GC thanks for kicking off a great thread! Thanks to all the other knowledgeable shotgunners as well.

Massachusetts has just increased the legal shot size to 243 (number 4 buck) for coyotes, so I've been reading alot on shotguns.

This thread has good real world groups, loads and chokes and how they work together. Helps a perspective shotgunner (me) to at least make a good first attempt at getting in the ballpark.

I'm a rifle guy, so this post is most helpful to getting a handle on whats REALLY going on in the shotgun world.
_________________________
" Life is just something that happens to me between coyote hunts" Sleddogg 2003

Top
Page 2 of 99 < 1 2 3 4 ... 98 99 >



Moderator:  Infidel 762 

© Predator Masters™, All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.