.45-70 for Big/Dangerous game

Dawgkilla

New member
Can anyone comment on experience they have had using a .45-70 (specifically with hard-cast bullets) on large/dangerous game? I purchased a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 as a big/dangerous game "hammer" under 200 yards (with hand loaded hard-cast bullets) as I was impressed with various articles and accounts I have read. Handles well and is accurate...before you answer, read THIS: http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/penetration_test.htm

Thanks!
 
Dawg,

Doesn't look like you are getting many takers. I have a little experience, but it is not exactly what you are looking for.

Several years ago, I guided for elk hunters in Oregon's Hell's Canyon. For a couple of years, I used a Ruger Number One 45-70.

As you know, the Number One is hell for stout and the 45-70 can be loaded almost like a short .458. I used 350-grain Hornadys with 53.0 grains of IMR-4198. Muzzle velocity was 2200 fps. Note: This load would be quite dangerous in your Marlin.

I remember dispatching several client's wounded elk with the rifle/load and it was wonderful when you have to shoot into the south end of an elk that is fleeing north (in the bottom of a brushy canyon bottom). It breaks elk down and that is what a guide wants when the hunt suddenly goes terribly awry.

During the course of these hunts, I also managed to kill my own elk with the rifle. I killed two bulls, both raghorns (a light four and a scraggley five-point). Both were shot at less than 100 yards and both dropped like a sack.

I remember one bull (the five point)went out of the scope (a 3X Leupold) so fast that I thought I'd missed him. Hey, one moment he was there with the post reticle on his shoulder. I fired and he totally disappeared.

I center-punched his shoulder and he evidently got swatted over (quite dead) like a metal silhouette. The bullet went through both shoulders, leaving very little damage and exited.

During those years, I also killed several mule deer with the 300-grain Hornady HP @ 2350 fps. Hell of an exit (always full of bone and hair). Nasty, nasty load that is OK for deer, but not elk.

Hornady lists loads for the Marlin and hopefully you can come up with something that translates to cast bullets.

Your best source, however is probably the Lyman #47 Manual. Lyman makes Springfield, Marlin and Ruger divisions for the 45-70 and has excellent coverage of cast bullets (as well as jacketed) in #47. Don't forget that Lyman also publishes a cast bullet manual.

I wrote a three-part series on ALL current loading manuals in Varmint Hunter (Issues 34, 35 and 36) and you might gather some insight from my scribblings. I made every attempt to cover the 45-70 divisions of Springfield, Marlin and Ruger are covered well.

Having said all that, I wonder what Americans would consider "Big/Dangerous Game." I've hunted Africa a few times and there is lots of it there. Here in the States, however, we are lacking in beasties that would qualify.

The bigger brown bears certainly make the list. Moose are big, but not particularly dangerous. Elk, naaaw.

Now I remember one time in Zimbabwe, when TWO rhinos ran me around and around a mopane tree for several minutes. Thank goodness I packed extra underwear. Now THAT was big and dangerous.

Best of luck with your project, my friend.

Steve
 
SteveTimm,
Thanks for the info. I am trying to fashion a load using Cast Performance 440 grain hard-cast (LFNGC) bullets for an elk/anything-short-of-elephant load (I'd probably use something over 500 grains for that ). From everything I have read hard cast bullets of sufficient diameter (and having a large meplat) are devastating on large game and I want to come up with something along the lines of what Randy Garrett (http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp) is making, but for a little less $$$. I know I can't load my rounds as hot as your ruger can handle but I figure I can get that 440 grain chunk of rebar goin' AROUND 1700-1800 fps. I'll use it on elk/black bear/dear this year and (when I hit the jackpot someday) on brown bear and african game in the future. Best thing about ALL of this is the .45-70 Guide Gun kicks SO much less than my .338 even with HUGE bullets.
 
Yes the Marlin and the 45-70 rock! I can't speak from personal experience but my dad ripped the front shoulder off of a spike elk at 50 yds with an exiting 350gr Hornady with his Marlin. He's taken several since without the extreme damage, and also made a "shoebox" deer. There was only a shoebox full of meat left after that frontal shot.

good luck!
 
Thanks Stu,
I spent a lot of time on Beartooth before I went with the Cast Performance bullets. The note on Beartooth about a backlog kinda turned me off. Also found a couple good articles on Cast Performance (http://www.castperformance.com if anyone is interested) and Cor-Bon and Federal use them.
 
Yeah, the backlog sucks. Did you search the articles to see what he had on loads and performance? I found quite a bit that's usefull with my 444 Marlin. I also haven't tried any of his bullets, due to the backlog. I need to go ahead and order some so I can play with them next spring.
 
Dawgkilla -

I carry a 45-70 5 shot revolver for griz protection when not carrying a rifle or s/g. I shoot factory loads usually the 405 gr. Thats the largest it can handle due to bullet lenght. The revolver is still a virgin as far as bears are concern so I can't directly answer your question. Wife did give me a 45-70 Guide gun for my birthday a few months back but I just haven't had time to go get it yet. So I'll be chasing the threads mentioned above too.
 
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