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#729365 - 07/20/07 08:31 PM 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P
bea175 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3295
Loc: Kingsport, TN, Graysontown, VA
I took this Wild Boar with my 45 ACP Springfield and the Hornady 230 XTP Plus P Ammo. This is the recovered bullet. The Wild Boar dropped in his track and only kicked a couple of times. The bullet failed by it appearance but killed the hog in it track. So would you call the bullet a failure???
Shot was about 35 yards.



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#729366 - 07/20/07 09:27 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: bea175]
ColoradoOsprey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 1132
Loc: El Paso County, Colorado
Dropped in it's tracks...nope...no bullet failure.

Bullet completely separated from jacket...bullet failure.

The bullet did fail to mushroom though. At 35 yards the velocity is low enough that most hollow points will fail to open up. The Hornady XTP's are a little hardier than some as they have some of the higher penetration compared to other defensive bullet designs...causing even less expansion.

Remember that defensive pistol ammo is generally designed to be used from point blank range to about 30 feet, which is the average engagement distance when using a handgun for defense.

Good shot by the way...one for the 35 yard shot...second for dropping the pig with one shot.

EDIT: On a side note...when I worked Law Enforcement I used to have some on these on hand for specificly defeating auto glass. They will penetrate when most will deflect or come apart.
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#729367 - 07/20/07 09:39 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: ColoradoOsprey]
bea175 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3295
Loc: Kingsport, TN, Graysontown, VA
Penetration is why i picked the XTP for the Wild Hog hunting. I wanted a bullet that would penetrate the shoulder plate on the hogs. The XTP did that very well. For my carry guns i use the Speer Gold Dot or the Winchester Personal Protection.
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#729368 - 07/20/07 09:42 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: ColoradoOsprey]
OldTurtle Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
It used to be that most Jacketed Hollow Points at velocities less that 1000 fps did not function as planned, but would deform to a degree.

That's one of the reasons I prefer the 10mm over the .45acp. 1300 fps with 180+gr JHP definitely opens up.

It's been 16 years since I was in any handgun ballistics evaluations and some of the newer stuff on the market may have been developed to overcome this factor.

It just doesn't look like this one was any better than the older ones.
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#729369 - 07/20/07 09:58 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: OldTurtle]
BroncoGlenn Offline
Retired PM Staff

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 3583
Loc: Henderson, Nevada
Looking at that bullet it hit something pretty hard, likely the shoulder bone/plate and it deformed the tip. Furthermore, it was likely deflected and traveling off-axis through tissue. With the tip deformed like that mushrooming wouldn't be likely, take it off-axis and it won't expand at all.

Most of the modern bullet designs will work over a wide velocity range. Some are even specially designed for very low velocities such as when used in 2" barreled .38 specials. But if the bullet gets to going sideways, it won't be able to expand as it relies on hydraulic force of tissue to cause the expansion.


Edited by BroncoGlenn (07/20/07 10:04 PM)
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#729370 - 07/20/07 10:17 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: OldTurtle]
GC Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16685
Loc: Missouri
The one thing you did not tell us is where you hit the hog. That has to play an important part in deciding how well the bullet performed. At any rate, drop em' right there performance with a .45 ACP on something as tough as a hog is fairly impressive. The pic's of the bullet are not so impressive. XTP's are tough bullets and hold together, maybe too well. I would not choose an XTP for self defense against human attackers because of this.

Then again, most low velocity handgun hollowpoint bullets are tested down to 850 fps for expansion. The +P Hornady 230 gr. XTP is listed as having a muzzle velocity of 950 fps. At 30 yards you may have been at/below the threshold of expansion for that bullet. In which case, while it did not expand, it did penetrate deep enough to kill the critter quickly. So in that way of thinking the bullet actually did fine.

One thing I think most of us would agree on, a sample of one is simply too little information to draw conclusions about the load in general. If I were hog hunting with a .45 ACP I would most likely look really hard at the Buffalo Bore 230 gr. truncated cone flat point FMJ +P load. My thinking is it would perform much like the LBT type hard cast bullets and penetrate deeply while cutting a decently wide wound channel, with enough bullet integrity to break a bone or two along the way. Ya know what? That load wouldn't expand either...
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#729371 - 07/20/07 10:22 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: GC]
bea175 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3295
Loc: Kingsport, TN, Graysontown, VA
The shot was right behind the point of the shoulder and the bullet was lodged in the far shoulder just under the hide. Arrow shows approximate place the bullet entered.



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NRA Life Member Varmint Hunter ***. North American Hunting Club Buckmaster With Great Victories, Comes Great Sacrifice

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#729372 - 07/20/07 10:28 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: bea175]
wonk1 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 147
Loc: Midwest
One shot...one kill.


Good shooting!!!

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#729373 - 07/21/07 09:51 AM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: wonk1]
bea175 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3295
Loc: Kingsport, TN, Graysontown, VA
The 45 ACP is a much better hunting round than it gets credit for. Use the right bullet and limit your shots to 50 yards and under and it works on big game up to whitetail quiet well. The 1911 is a wonderful hunting handgun from your tree-stand just like when you are bow-hunting. The distant you can consistly hit a paper plate should be your max range with the 45 acp or any other handgun when hunting big game. Rabbit hunting and groundhogs are good practice for handgun hunters . I am going to use my 1911 for some of my coyote hunting when i start back calling this year.
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#729374 - 07/21/07 10:16 AM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: bea175]
hoginator204 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 836
Bob,

There have been cases where on some hollow point bullets that if the "HP cavity" is blocked with hair or tissue it will fail to expand.

As an Example, I know of private tests that were done on Barnes triple shock bullets that the HP of the bullets had bison hair inserted in to HP before the rounds were fired into gelatin blocks and the bullets behaved like full metal jackets. The HP would open just slightly and the fired bullet would be curved like a bananna because it yawed after inpact which is typical for a FMJ.

If your .45 XTP HP bullet had expanded as you would think it should have would the bullet have been found in the off shoulder???

Hoggy

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#729375 - 07/21/07 12:06 PM Re: 45 ACP Bullet Failure or Not / Hornady XTP Plus P [Re: hoginator204]
bea175 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 3295
Loc: Kingsport, TN, Graysontown, VA
I never believed the bullet failed because it got my game with one shot. On tough game i will take penetration over expansion anytime. I have had a number of HP bullets fail to expand and this is the reason i use the hard cast 250 gr or 300 gr Keith bullets in my 44 Mag for just about all my hunting in my 629. I started this post to see what other people opinions would be. For my 500 Smith i load the 400 gr Sierra HP with Lil'Gun and will see how this works next hunting season.
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