NM Leon
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This is the Tazer web-site showing their new product.
The story below is from Scientific American. I've included 11 of the 15 comments for your amusement.
Does this look like a nonlethal weapon to you?
Tazer XREP electric shotgun shell
The engineers at Tazer, maker of numerous possibly-lethal "nonlethal" weapons, have added a new item to their arsenal.
If it prevents someone from actually getting shot, I'm all for it. (That's assuming that this thing is any safer than what would normally come out of the barrel of a shotgun.) The research I'd like to see done: Does putting "nonlethal" weapons in the hands of law enforcement make them more likely to use them in lieu of, I dunno, tackling people and handcuffing them?
From the product site:
"XREP is a self-contained, wireless projectile that fires from a standard 12-gauge shotgun. It delivers the same Neuro-Muscular Incapacitation (NMI) bio-effect as our handheld TASER X26, but can be delivered to a distance of up to 100 feet, combining blunt impact with field proven TASER NMI....
The TASER XREP launch velocity is approximately 300 feet per second....
Another innovative and unique feature of the XREP nose is the reflex engagement electrode. A normal reaction to the pain of a projectile impact is for the subject to grab at the impact site. If the subject tries to grab or disconnect the XREP projectile, the reflex engagement electrodes complete a circuit allowing TASER NMI to discharge from the Nose Electrodes, through the subject’s body, out to the hand that grabbed the XREP. This creates a significant spread that allows the XREP pulses to affect a large body mass, causing overpowering Neuro Muscular Incapacitation....
In fact, if the subject even grabs the tether, a live hand-trap wire makes a connection and the NMI effect is delivered through the hand, preventing the subject from letting go. If none of the preferred electrodes are in contact, the XREP delivers its impulse across the front electrodes, creating a painful stimulus to distract, disorient, and entice the subject to grab for the XREP making a hand connection, or to move in reaction to the pain which can help the cholla electrodes on the main chassis to engage.
Chris Hurley [Member] July 10, 2007 @ 6:49 pm writes:
anyone else thinking of Splinter Cell's "sticky shocker"?
Fernando Magyar [Member] July 10, 2007 @ 7:50 pm writes:
Yeah, it must really suck to not be able to use your gun in any but the most extreme circumstances. Oh and how about all the AIDS and body fluids in those desperate twisted people coming into your average emergency room right off the street via ambulance, heck why not hand out a few of these instruments of public pacification to the health care workers, just in case. I mean you never know when you might need to subdue someone you can't actually shoot, right? Here's a radical thought, imagine working, (like really hard), for a just and equitable society that is a little less like the Third Reich and maybe we'll even need fewer police.
joe bob [Member] July 10, 2007 @ 8:49 pm writes:
Just like tasers... another means of torturing people legally. I have nothing against cops, but causing agonizing pain is evil, and cops here don't pull out tasers when faced with a deadly threat.
Kevin Lais [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 12:35 am writes:
What happens the first time the round in the chamber is accidently #00 buckshot instead of this flying taser? I hope someone with a brain considers that consequence.
Jenny Cade [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 2:57 am writes:
Good god that sounds horrific.
Michael Langdon [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 9:30 am writes:
The idea that anything is "nonlethal" is a fraud and even more so by artificially stating so. Is a billy club nonlethal? In the hands of a unionized NYC or Chicago police officer I am sure they will find a way for it to be lethal. Then of course they will say that it is suppose to be a nonlethal device. In Mequon WI a police officer killed a young man by putting the wrong protective bag over his head. And even when the young man told the officer he was having problems breathing the cop ignored him. The cops excuse was that he wasn't properly trained. I used to work as a bouncer in a very rough bar with no gun and lots of drunk people. And yet somehow I was able to deal with it without shooting anyone. The problem with the police are all these weapons and a mindset that is attracted to all these weapons. I remember as a kid watching Hogan's Heroes and despising the Nazi's for always shooting first and asking questions later. It seems that this is now what the police have become.
Ben Solwitz [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 3:54 pm writes:
I bet these things hurt like hell. Paintballs are generally fired at about 300fps but they weigh 3-4 grams, not 14, and they can hurt quite a bit. Not only is this thing much heavier than a paintball, it looks like it's probably more aerodynamic, and it's got barbed electrodes sticking out the front... ouch!
Justin Paquette [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 5:32 pm writes:
I personally believe that while this device may (and I stress the word may) save lives, any thing that is so cruel as to intice someone to cause more pain to themselves i.e. "entice the subject to grab for the XREP making a hand connection," simply to facilitate a takedown could have far worse side effects than a traditional take down. Such side effects could include psychological distress at having been tricked by police into causing themselves harm, or even worse a suit against the police department claiming pshycological damage as a result. Granted these issues may not come to pass but by allowing such a dastardly device to be used I feel we would be inviting more issues.
Paul Foyster [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 8:40 pm writes:
Non lethal would be according to prescribed usage. Bullets can be non lethal if you do not empty your gun into the suspect or shoot him in the head or heart. All police officers are excellent marksmen and do not need to kill suspects but they are trained to do so. When they start using these tazer shotguns they will probably shoot enough times to paralyse an elephant. Suspects will die from these weapons like any other weapons. Have you ever seen these cops using a billy club on disorderly persons. The amount of severe damage that occurs is amazing.
Paul Foyster [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 8:52 pm writes:
What is the matter with Americans they do not seem to have common sense. If some official proclamation is not made about the safety of something that is obviously dangerous or unsafe they keep doing whatever it is and are totally shocked when they get hurt. Such as do not drive and drink, do not take drugs and drive. Do not let your children play after dark. Do not smoke it is bad for you. Smoke is also bad for your family and children who live in the house. Why do these things need to be said. Are Americans saving their smarts for some special circumstances.
Fernando Magyar [Member] July 12, 2007 @ 7:13 am writes:
Paul, As someone who is fluent in more than one culture and has had the opportunity to see a bit of the world, I can assure you that lack of common sense is NOT an exclusively American trait.
The story below is from Scientific American. I've included 11 of the 15 comments for your amusement.
Does this look like a nonlethal weapon to you?
Tazer XREP electric shotgun shell
The engineers at Tazer, maker of numerous possibly-lethal "nonlethal" weapons, have added a new item to their arsenal.
If it prevents someone from actually getting shot, I'm all for it. (That's assuming that this thing is any safer than what would normally come out of the barrel of a shotgun.) The research I'd like to see done: Does putting "nonlethal" weapons in the hands of law enforcement make them more likely to use them in lieu of, I dunno, tackling people and handcuffing them?
From the product site:
"XREP is a self-contained, wireless projectile that fires from a standard 12-gauge shotgun. It delivers the same Neuro-Muscular Incapacitation (NMI) bio-effect as our handheld TASER X26, but can be delivered to a distance of up to 100 feet, combining blunt impact with field proven TASER NMI....
The TASER XREP launch velocity is approximately 300 feet per second....
Another innovative and unique feature of the XREP nose is the reflex engagement electrode. A normal reaction to the pain of a projectile impact is for the subject to grab at the impact site. If the subject tries to grab or disconnect the XREP projectile, the reflex engagement electrodes complete a circuit allowing TASER NMI to discharge from the Nose Electrodes, through the subject’s body, out to the hand that grabbed the XREP. This creates a significant spread that allows the XREP pulses to affect a large body mass, causing overpowering Neuro Muscular Incapacitation....
In fact, if the subject even grabs the tether, a live hand-trap wire makes a connection and the NMI effect is delivered through the hand, preventing the subject from letting go. If none of the preferred electrodes are in contact, the XREP delivers its impulse across the front electrodes, creating a painful stimulus to distract, disorient, and entice the subject to grab for the XREP making a hand connection, or to move in reaction to the pain which can help the cholla electrodes on the main chassis to engage.
Chris Hurley [Member] July 10, 2007 @ 6:49 pm writes:
anyone else thinking of Splinter Cell's "sticky shocker"?
Fernando Magyar [Member] July 10, 2007 @ 7:50 pm writes:
Yeah, it must really suck to not be able to use your gun in any but the most extreme circumstances. Oh and how about all the AIDS and body fluids in those desperate twisted people coming into your average emergency room right off the street via ambulance, heck why not hand out a few of these instruments of public pacification to the health care workers, just in case. I mean you never know when you might need to subdue someone you can't actually shoot, right? Here's a radical thought, imagine working, (like really hard), for a just and equitable society that is a little less like the Third Reich and maybe we'll even need fewer police.
joe bob [Member] July 10, 2007 @ 8:49 pm writes:
Just like tasers... another means of torturing people legally. I have nothing against cops, but causing agonizing pain is evil, and cops here don't pull out tasers when faced with a deadly threat.
Kevin Lais [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 12:35 am writes:
What happens the first time the round in the chamber is accidently #00 buckshot instead of this flying taser? I hope someone with a brain considers that consequence.
Jenny Cade [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 2:57 am writes:
Good god that sounds horrific.
Michael Langdon [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 9:30 am writes:
The idea that anything is "nonlethal" is a fraud and even more so by artificially stating so. Is a billy club nonlethal? In the hands of a unionized NYC or Chicago police officer I am sure they will find a way for it to be lethal. Then of course they will say that it is suppose to be a nonlethal device. In Mequon WI a police officer killed a young man by putting the wrong protective bag over his head. And even when the young man told the officer he was having problems breathing the cop ignored him. The cops excuse was that he wasn't properly trained. I used to work as a bouncer in a very rough bar with no gun and lots of drunk people. And yet somehow I was able to deal with it without shooting anyone. The problem with the police are all these weapons and a mindset that is attracted to all these weapons. I remember as a kid watching Hogan's Heroes and despising the Nazi's for always shooting first and asking questions later. It seems that this is now what the police have become.
Ben Solwitz [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 3:54 pm writes:
I bet these things hurt like hell. Paintballs are generally fired at about 300fps but they weigh 3-4 grams, not 14, and they can hurt quite a bit. Not only is this thing much heavier than a paintball, it looks like it's probably more aerodynamic, and it's got barbed electrodes sticking out the front... ouch!
Justin Paquette [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 5:32 pm writes:
I personally believe that while this device may (and I stress the word may) save lives, any thing that is so cruel as to intice someone to cause more pain to themselves i.e. "entice the subject to grab for the XREP making a hand connection," simply to facilitate a takedown could have far worse side effects than a traditional take down. Such side effects could include psychological distress at having been tricked by police into causing themselves harm, or even worse a suit against the police department claiming pshycological damage as a result. Granted these issues may not come to pass but by allowing such a dastardly device to be used I feel we would be inviting more issues.
Paul Foyster [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 8:40 pm writes:
Non lethal would be according to prescribed usage. Bullets can be non lethal if you do not empty your gun into the suspect or shoot him in the head or heart. All police officers are excellent marksmen and do not need to kill suspects but they are trained to do so. When they start using these tazer shotguns they will probably shoot enough times to paralyse an elephant. Suspects will die from these weapons like any other weapons. Have you ever seen these cops using a billy club on disorderly persons. The amount of severe damage that occurs is amazing.
Paul Foyster [Member] July 11, 2007 @ 8:52 pm writes:
What is the matter with Americans they do not seem to have common sense. If some official proclamation is not made about the safety of something that is obviously dangerous or unsafe they keep doing whatever it is and are totally shocked when they get hurt. Such as do not drive and drink, do not take drugs and drive. Do not let your children play after dark. Do not smoke it is bad for you. Smoke is also bad for your family and children who live in the house. Why do these things need to be said. Are Americans saving their smarts for some special circumstances.
Fernando Magyar [Member] July 12, 2007 @ 7:13 am writes:
Paul, As someone who is fluent in more than one culture and has had the opportunity to see a bit of the world, I can assure you that lack of common sense is NOT an exclusively American trait.
