Asbestos question???
- Thread starter Junebugg
- Start date
greg223
New member
Quote:
They can, but the only way to be sure is to have it tested.
Crapshoot is right, about 50% are asbestos. Metalbestos, the same. This is based on my research into this subject. I am a Home Inspector and have been asked the same question fairly often. Same holds true with Vermiculite Insulation, about 50%. Like Crapshoot said, have it tested, if there is none, your remodel project is no big deal; if there is, them you MUST take proper precautions for removal and disposal. Remember, asbestos is really no big deal unless it becomes friable(airborne). The test should cost you about $75-$100, well worth it.
They can, but the only way to be sure is to have it tested.
Crapshoot is right, about 50% are asbestos. Metalbestos, the same. This is based on my research into this subject. I am a Home Inspector and have been asked the same question fairly often. Same holds true with Vermiculite Insulation, about 50%. Like Crapshoot said, have it tested, if there is none, your remodel project is no big deal; if there is, them you MUST take proper precautions for removal and disposal. Remember, asbestos is really no big deal unless it becomes friable(airborne). The test should cost you about $75-$100, well worth it.
greg223
New member
Quote:
Thanks for the replys.Problem is I've already started the removal of the ceiling tiles and the whole asbestos question kind of hit me as an after thought.If these are asbestos fibrated the stuff is already airborne...Guess there is a 50% chance i'm screwed.
Wear respiratory protection, keep the dust cleaned up.
Thanks for the replys.Problem is I've already started the removal of the ceiling tiles and the whole asbestos question kind of hit me as an after thought.If these are asbestos fibrated the stuff is already airborne...Guess there is a 50% chance i'm screwed.
Wear respiratory protection, keep the dust cleaned up.
slagmaker
New member
Wear a resperator of proper filtration and use a garden sprayer to just moisten the surface of the material you are working with. Keeping the surfaces just damp will help to keep the dust down. You should place all questionable materials in plastic bags and wet the contents down before sealing the bag. This will help insure that if a bag is torn during disposal someone isnt accidentaly exposed to asbestos dust.
Like it was mentioned before asbestos inst all the big of a deal till it gets airborne then the trouble starts.
Like it was mentioned before asbestos inst all the big of a deal till it gets airborne then the trouble starts.
littletoes
New member
Ok, I'm an Asbestos Inspector, plus a Certified Asbestos Supervisor, and these are my secondary jobs....
Asbestos is everywhere, not just limited to building materials made prior to ANY DATE, thats right ITS STILL BEING USED.
Lets just say the materials you are removing have asbestos in them, now for one, if there is carpet in the room, it is now contaminated, and should be removed. We have to base all of our decisions that THERE IS NO SAFE EXPOSURE LIMIT. Its all dangerous, BUT....the EPA allows us to be exposed to .01 fibers per cc. How does that make you feel? All warm and fuzzy?
Well, its too late, you started the job, so now we've got to get it done.
What should be done, lay down two layers of 6 mil plastic, tape both layers to the wall, the second layer higher up than the first. Use AMENDED water, that means water that has a surfactant in it to help break surface tension down, hand-dishwashing soap works fine, and it doesn't take much. You see, asbestos fibers are very very small, 3X5 microns is the definition of a fiber, i think, I don't have my books here at home with me. Wash the walls down lightly, wet the material to be removed, and continue wetting until they are down. Once down they should be put into bags, doubled up, 6 mil, and desposed of properly.
Type of Resperator depends on the quantity of the asbestos in the material you are removing. At the least you should use a 1/2 face HEPA (Highe Efficiency Particulate Air), but you should be "fit-tested" with this or it wouldn't do any good. Store bought cheapy face masks do nothing, and I do mean NOTHING AT ALL. They are not designed for asbestos removal.
Do I have you scared yet?
well, I guess to maybe avoid too many problems you should contact a testing agency, and see what a Certified Asbestos Inspector says, or just take the sample yourself, and take it to a certified lab.
No matter what, Asbestos Costs....
The other side of the coin-The problem with asbestos, it has a latency period of around 30 years. Thats how long it takes to kill you, and the problem being, it doesn't affect any two people the same. What might kill you, might not hurt the next guy, ever.
Kids are the ones we have to watch out for, with their young lungs, they are more succeptible to problems. Hence why the laws were written. They are written for schools, the rest of the folks out there working in office buildings, or what have you-don't have any idea at all to their exposeure.
Sorry for being so long winded, and I hope this helps.
TH
Asbestos is everywhere, not just limited to building materials made prior to ANY DATE, thats right ITS STILL BEING USED.
Lets just say the materials you are removing have asbestos in them, now for one, if there is carpet in the room, it is now contaminated, and should be removed. We have to base all of our decisions that THERE IS NO SAFE EXPOSURE LIMIT. Its all dangerous, BUT....the EPA allows us to be exposed to .01 fibers per cc. How does that make you feel? All warm and fuzzy?
Well, its too late, you started the job, so now we've got to get it done.
What should be done, lay down two layers of 6 mil plastic, tape both layers to the wall, the second layer higher up than the first. Use AMENDED water, that means water that has a surfactant in it to help break surface tension down, hand-dishwashing soap works fine, and it doesn't take much. You see, asbestos fibers are very very small, 3X5 microns is the definition of a fiber, i think, I don't have my books here at home with me. Wash the walls down lightly, wet the material to be removed, and continue wetting until they are down. Once down they should be put into bags, doubled up, 6 mil, and desposed of properly.
Type of Resperator depends on the quantity of the asbestos in the material you are removing. At the least you should use a 1/2 face HEPA (Highe Efficiency Particulate Air), but you should be "fit-tested" with this or it wouldn't do any good. Store bought cheapy face masks do nothing, and I do mean NOTHING AT ALL. They are not designed for asbestos removal.
Do I have you scared yet?
well, I guess to maybe avoid too many problems you should contact a testing agency, and see what a Certified Asbestos Inspector says, or just take the sample yourself, and take it to a certified lab.
No matter what, Asbestos Costs....
The other side of the coin-The problem with asbestos, it has a latency period of around 30 years. Thats how long it takes to kill you, and the problem being, it doesn't affect any two people the same. What might kill you, might not hurt the next guy, ever.
Kids are the ones we have to watch out for, with their young lungs, they are more succeptible to problems. Hence why the laws were written. They are written for schools, the rest of the folks out there working in office buildings, or what have you-don't have any idea at all to their exposeure.
Sorry for being so long winded, and I hope this helps.
TH
Rim_Runner
New member
As a navy pipe fitter and a construction worker my dad was exposed to asbestos when he was a young man. In his final years he was fully dependant on an oxygen bottle and wheel chair bound.
NM Leon
New member
I've got my fingers crossed. I used asbestos cloth as heat shielding in engine rooms when I was much younger. Tight enclosed spaces, cutting the cloth, etc.
I was also exposed to Ethylene glycol in solvent tanks without any ventilation and sometimes without even gloves (really dries your skin out), Acetone and various epoxies (likwise without any protection), and a few other nasties.
So far I'm going strong, but we'll see what finally gets me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I was also exposed to Ethylene glycol in solvent tanks without any ventilation and sometimes without even gloves (really dries your skin out), Acetone and various epoxies (likwise without any protection), and a few other nasties.
So far I'm going strong, but we'll see what finally gets me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
greg223
New member
Quote:
I've got my fingers crossed. I used asbestos cloth as heat shielding in engine rooms when I was much younger. Tight enclosed spaces, cutting the cloth, etc.
I was also exposed to Ethylene glycol in solvent tanks without any ventilation and sometimes without even gloves (really dries your skin out), Acetone and various epoxies (likwise without any protection), and a few other nasties.
So far I'm going strong, but we'll see what finally gets me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
What gets you won't be any of those things you mention, it will probably be some left-wing lacky that does. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I've got my fingers crossed. I used asbestos cloth as heat shielding in engine rooms when I was much younger. Tight enclosed spaces, cutting the cloth, etc.
I was also exposed to Ethylene glycol in solvent tanks without any ventilation and sometimes without even gloves (really dries your skin out), Acetone and various epoxies (likwise without any protection), and a few other nasties.
So far I'm going strong, but we'll see what finally gets me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
What gets you won't be any of those things you mention, it will probably be some left-wing lacky that does. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
NM Leon
New member
I'd be real peeved if some leftie sissy girlie man got the better of me. I'd probably need time for an attitude adjustment before facing St. Peter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
I'm hoping for a coyote, lion, or bear right after I've had a (preferably painless) heart attack and just as I'm breathing my last gasp. Seems fitting somehow that they should get their turn at bat with me after I'm finished having my fun with them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm hoping for a coyote, lion, or bear right after I've had a (preferably painless) heart attack and just as I'm breathing my last gasp. Seems fitting somehow that they should get their turn at bat with me after I'm finished having my fun with them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
greg223
New member
Quote:
I'd be real peeved if some leftie sissy girlie man got the better of me. I'd probably need time for an attitude adjustment before facing St. Peter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
I'm hoping for a coyote, lion, or bear right after I've had a (preferably painless) heart attack and just as I'm breathing my last gasp. Seems fitting somehow that they should get their turn at bat with me after I'm finished having my fun with them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
LOL! I wholeheartedly agree!
I'd be real peeved if some leftie sissy girlie man got the better of me. I'd probably need time for an attitude adjustment before facing St. Peter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif
I'm hoping for a coyote, lion, or bear right after I've had a (preferably painless) heart attack and just as I'm breathing my last gasp. Seems fitting somehow that they should get their turn at bat with me after I'm finished having my fun with them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
LOL! I wholeheartedly agree!
Tackdriver
New member
Junebugg
Was any of this disclosed to you when you bought the property?
Did your home inspector make you aware of the risks of the property or that it had this material in it?
From the tone of your post it does not sound like it.
I would get the home tested. Then the very next thing I would do if I were you is talk to an attorney skilled in environmental issues and their relation to personal injury.
Call the Bar Association in Maine, they will get you on the right track.
I think you are in for a long ordeal; you may not want to live in the home. I wouldn't. But there may still be some action that can be taken so all the expense is not on you.
Whatever you decide; Good Luck.
To Littletoes:
Can you please go into more detail on which consumer products still contain asbestos?
Was any of this disclosed to you when you bought the property?
Did your home inspector make you aware of the risks of the property or that it had this material in it?
From the tone of your post it does not sound like it.
I would get the home tested. Then the very next thing I would do if I were you is talk to an attorney skilled in environmental issues and their relation to personal injury.
Call the Bar Association in Maine, they will get you on the right track.
I think you are in for a long ordeal; you may not want to live in the home. I wouldn't. But there may still be some action that can be taken so all the expense is not on you.
Whatever you decide; Good Luck.
To Littletoes:
Can you please go into more detail on which consumer products still contain asbestos?
littletoes
New member
Asbestos doesn't have to be disclosed when selling a home.
Sorry to say, if you don't test it, you don't know, and if you don't know, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT.
And if you DO disclose it, good luck selling the house!
so, basically you get screwed for being honest.....but if you test it and DON'T disclose it, you are liable, and all that entails. When tested, there is a PAPER TRAIL.
Comercial property is differant....don't forget that.
CONSUMER PRODUCTS THAT CONTAIN ASBESTOS;
EVERYTHING....
Yep, that right, everything can, and could have Asbestos in it, and they DO NOT HAVE TO DISCLOSE THIS INFORMATION ON THE PACKAGEING! All the packaging has to say is something like - "Contains Fiberous Materials..." or something like that.
Heres a short list to start with;
Paint(yep, thats right, paint. Asbestos is used as a binder in paints. Remember, its fiberous!), wallboard/sheetrock, taping/topping compounds, floor-tiles, sheet-flooring, brake & cluth linnings (thats right, its still used there), mortor/concrete, MASTICS (this is a big one, it can be in everything from floor tile mastic, carpet mastic, cieling tile mastic, you name it-and color doesn't matter, its there), construction papers, roofing felts, etc. etc.
The most dangerous and most concentrated stuff is found on piping, boilers, etc. Its referred to as TSI or Thermal Systems Insulation. I've seen it as high as 95%, that was on boiler "rope" on a cast-iron sectional boiler. That same type of rope could be found around the door of older wood stoves, or some furnaces, but most of the newer stuff is glass or ceramic wool. A card-board looking stuff is exactly that, its a cardboard that has been coated in asbestos as a binder to help apply it by wrapping it around piping. Its referred to as "Aircell". Very nasty stuff. There is also a cement looking stuff used on piping and boilers that is referred to as "Mag". Its blocky and very brittle, what is referred to as "friable". That means you can crumble it with your hands. Also dangerous stuff, due to the higher concentracions of asbestos.
There is also Vermiculite.
Vermiculite is NOT an Asbestos, but it IS a "Natural Occuring Mineral" with Asbestos. When you mine one, you just get lucky and get the other. Asbestos will "settle" to the bottom, so if you want to take a sample of vermiculite to see if there is asbestos in it, take your sample at the bottom. Vermiculite is used in gardening potting soils, and insulation. There are towns where it was mined that have a "Trail of Death" where it was shipped by Train back east. Check out Libby Montana, folks still dying there from it, and the mine has been closed for years....
Another is Talcum Powder....don't powder your babies bottom with it anymore, its another "Natural Occuring Mineral" with Asbestos.
Ok guys, I've been long-winded enough on this topic, sorry for that, but I hope this helps at least a bit....
Sorry to say, if you don't test it, you don't know, and if you don't know, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT.
And if you DO disclose it, good luck selling the house!
so, basically you get screwed for being honest.....but if you test it and DON'T disclose it, you are liable, and all that entails. When tested, there is a PAPER TRAIL.
Comercial property is differant....don't forget that.
CONSUMER PRODUCTS THAT CONTAIN ASBESTOS;
EVERYTHING....
Yep, that right, everything can, and could have Asbestos in it, and they DO NOT HAVE TO DISCLOSE THIS INFORMATION ON THE PACKAGEING! All the packaging has to say is something like - "Contains Fiberous Materials..." or something like that.
Heres a short list to start with;
Paint(yep, thats right, paint. Asbestos is used as a binder in paints. Remember, its fiberous!), wallboard/sheetrock, taping/topping compounds, floor-tiles, sheet-flooring, brake & cluth linnings (thats right, its still used there), mortor/concrete, MASTICS (this is a big one, it can be in everything from floor tile mastic, carpet mastic, cieling tile mastic, you name it-and color doesn't matter, its there), construction papers, roofing felts, etc. etc.
The most dangerous and most concentrated stuff is found on piping, boilers, etc. Its referred to as TSI or Thermal Systems Insulation. I've seen it as high as 95%, that was on boiler "rope" on a cast-iron sectional boiler. That same type of rope could be found around the door of older wood stoves, or some furnaces, but most of the newer stuff is glass or ceramic wool. A card-board looking stuff is exactly that, its a cardboard that has been coated in asbestos as a binder to help apply it by wrapping it around piping. Its referred to as "Aircell". Very nasty stuff. There is also a cement looking stuff used on piping and boilers that is referred to as "Mag". Its blocky and very brittle, what is referred to as "friable". That means you can crumble it with your hands. Also dangerous stuff, due to the higher concentracions of asbestos.
There is also Vermiculite.
Vermiculite is NOT an Asbestos, but it IS a "Natural Occuring Mineral" with Asbestos. When you mine one, you just get lucky and get the other. Asbestos will "settle" to the bottom, so if you want to take a sample of vermiculite to see if there is asbestos in it, take your sample at the bottom. Vermiculite is used in gardening potting soils, and insulation. There are towns where it was mined that have a "Trail of Death" where it was shipped by Train back east. Check out Libby Montana, folks still dying there from it, and the mine has been closed for years....
Another is Talcum Powder....don't powder your babies bottom with it anymore, its another "Natural Occuring Mineral" with Asbestos.
Ok guys, I've been long-winded enough on this topic, sorry for that, but I hope this helps at least a bit....
slagmaker
New member
Lots of things have asbestos in them. BUT remember the biggest danger is when the FIBERS become air borne. If theres no chance of it becoming ariborn then you have very little worries. A factory I worked at was tested for asbestos and it was found in only two spots. A Chiminy for the boilers. THey left it alone and posted a sighn saying warning asbestos. Second spot was in the ceiling tiles in the main office. That was a little harder to deal with. Closed the factory for 3 days while a team came in and removed all the asbestos tiles. The team looked like they were handeling inriched uranium or something with all teh protective gear but I dont blame them.
My family used to live in Missouri. I think the name of the town was "Times beach" or something like that. Any way the town is still there as in the buildings and stuff. Theres a nice chain link fence around the whole town. Seems somone sprayed oil on the road that was contaminated with Dioxin. The goverment came in and bought everything, only thing you left with was maybe inportant papers and stuff like that. Dioxin is very bad stuff.
My family used to live in Missouri. I think the name of the town was "Times beach" or something like that. Any way the town is still there as in the buildings and stuff. Theres a nice chain link fence around the whole town. Seems somone sprayed oil on the road that was contaminated with Dioxin. The goverment came in and bought everything, only thing you left with was maybe inportant papers and stuff like that. Dioxin is very bad stuff.
littletoes
New member
Exactly!
Asbestos is not going to jump out and get 'cha. Its when you start working with it, breaking it apart, cutting into it, abrading it by grinding....etc.
Mechanical Means is the most dangerous. If you would have noticed during the abatement, the workerd did most of the work by hand, to keep the material from becoming airborne.
Asbestos is not going to jump out and get 'cha. Its when you start working with it, breaking it apart, cutting into it, abrading it by grinding....etc.
Mechanical Means is the most dangerous. If you would have noticed during the abatement, the workerd did most of the work by hand, to keep the material from becoming airborne.
Tackdriver
New member
Littletoes.
Wow. I had no idea this stuff was so prevalent.
I knew it was in industrial areas, but I had thought it was disallowed on the consumer end. Kind of like DDT or lead paint from the '50s.
Thank you for the information.
Wow. I had no idea this stuff was so prevalent.
I knew it was in industrial areas, but I had thought it was disallowed on the consumer end. Kind of like DDT or lead paint from the '50s.
Thank you for the information.
littletoes
New member
Yea, its everywhere....
The bad part, sure the EPA has restrictions on AMERICAN companies, but since NAFTA, and CAFTA, we can now import more products that ARE NOT under the same Regulations.
And that doesn't just mean Asbestos, it means EVERYTHING from chemicals, textiles, you name it.
AND HOW CAN WE EXPECT AMERICAN COMPAINIES TO COMPETE AND KEEP THE JOBS ON OUR SOIL?
send your company south a bit, pay the labor quite a bit less, with bairly any insurance if any, and no retierment...no EPA restrictions, yep thats right, you can dump your chemical/toxic waste right in the rivers again! Just like days of old...
the American worker looses out, our Enviroment looses out, the products arn't as safe, nor the quality as high....just another way to break us....the Working man, the consumer.
Its a Terrible cycle, we have to buy cheap, 'cause our paycheck doesn't go as far, but we're out of a job, 'cause we didn't buy American.
Sorry for getting off topic here, there was a local school that got into trouble for some flooring.
It seems they abated a very large portion of the building, only to have tile installed from Mexico. It turns out these tiles contained asbestos, so the school has to pay to have the brand new stuff abated too....nobody checked the MSDS.
The bad part, sure the EPA has restrictions on AMERICAN companies, but since NAFTA, and CAFTA, we can now import more products that ARE NOT under the same Regulations.
And that doesn't just mean Asbestos, it means EVERYTHING from chemicals, textiles, you name it.
AND HOW CAN WE EXPECT AMERICAN COMPAINIES TO COMPETE AND KEEP THE JOBS ON OUR SOIL?
send your company south a bit, pay the labor quite a bit less, with bairly any insurance if any, and no retierment...no EPA restrictions, yep thats right, you can dump your chemical/toxic waste right in the rivers again! Just like days of old...
the American worker looses out, our Enviroment looses out, the products arn't as safe, nor the quality as high....just another way to break us....the Working man, the consumer.
Its a Terrible cycle, we have to buy cheap, 'cause our paycheck doesn't go as far, but we're out of a job, 'cause we didn't buy American.
Sorry for getting off topic here, there was a local school that got into trouble for some flooring.
It seems they abated a very large portion of the building, only to have tile installed from Mexico. It turns out these tiles contained asbestos, so the school has to pay to have the brand new stuff abated too....nobody checked the MSDS.
littletoes
New member
to add....
Lead in Paint??? OH MY!
For those that don't know...For every year that your/your child has spent in public school (older buildings) you/they have lost at least "1" I.Q. point from the exposure to lead per year.
Doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy? If now about you, how about your kid?
I'm dumb enough, I didn't need any help....lets say average is 120, so you spent 10 years in the public school system, so you are now around 110. No longer average....
dangme', but it ain't my fault, you guys got me going!
You don't EVEN want me to start on household chemicals!
And you wonder why cancer is so prevelant anymore.
Lead in Paint??? OH MY!
For those that don't know...For every year that your/your child has spent in public school (older buildings) you/they have lost at least "1" I.Q. point from the exposure to lead per year.
Doesn't that make you feel warm and fuzzy? If now about you, how about your kid?
I'm dumb enough, I didn't need any help....lets say average is 120, so you spent 10 years in the public school system, so you are now around 110. No longer average....
dangme', but it ain't my fault, you guys got me going!
You don't EVEN want me to start on household chemicals!
And you wonder why cancer is so prevelant anymore.