Why do most trap shooters use over-unders?
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Michael J. McCasland
New member
I shot mostly sheet league for a number of years. I'll give you my take on this. I was a pump man for a very long time, but turned to the over and under for a number of reasons. When shooting or playing clay pigion games you shoot a lot, a whole lot more that 99% of the field shooters out there so little things mean a lot.
1: An O/U has fewer moving parts, fewer parts to wear out, fewer parts to break. Generally speaking a quality O/U will outlast a mechanical gun like a pump or semi-auto by a large margin.
2: A pump or Semi-auto has all of its moving parts open to the world. A world full of dust, dirt and unburned & burned powder. All of which needs to be cleaned out eventually.
3: O/U's don't jamb ..... well lets say that they very rarely jamb. Reliability is a big factor.
4: This will sound petty to some but in some eyes its a very serious matter. O/U's don't fling empties all over the place. Many clubs have a rule that if a shell hits the ground it belongs to the club. This is rarely strictly followed but like golf skeet can be a quick game and waiting for someone to pick up empties can be trouble some.
Now that was skeet, trap is another matter. You can get your head handed to you by old timer trap shooters if your shells are constantly flying here and there. For a lot of trap shooters trap is a rythem game. Anything that throws off that rythem is a multiplied irritant. A trap shooter wants to get a rythem going. Each shooter loads in rythem, each shooter closes their gun in rythem, each shooter calls for the bird in rythem. Bouncing an empty into another shooters box destroys that rythem, talking destroys the rythem, talking, gun jambs, broken birds comming out of the house, a poor thrower, man darned near anything can be a problem.
5: Safety, when an O/U is cracked open, everybody can see it and they know that it is relatively safe.
6: And lastly for me, nothing points, swings or carries like an O/U, absolutely nothing.
1: An O/U has fewer moving parts, fewer parts to wear out, fewer parts to break. Generally speaking a quality O/U will outlast a mechanical gun like a pump or semi-auto by a large margin.
2: A pump or Semi-auto has all of its moving parts open to the world. A world full of dust, dirt and unburned & burned powder. All of which needs to be cleaned out eventually.
3: O/U's don't jamb ..... well lets say that they very rarely jamb. Reliability is a big factor.
4: This will sound petty to some but in some eyes its a very serious matter. O/U's don't fling empties all over the place. Many clubs have a rule that if a shell hits the ground it belongs to the club. This is rarely strictly followed but like golf skeet can be a quick game and waiting for someone to pick up empties can be trouble some.
Now that was skeet, trap is another matter. You can get your head handed to you by old timer trap shooters if your shells are constantly flying here and there. For a lot of trap shooters trap is a rythem game. Anything that throws off that rythem is a multiplied irritant. A trap shooter wants to get a rythem going. Each shooter loads in rythem, each shooter closes their gun in rythem, each shooter calls for the bird in rythem. Bouncing an empty into another shooters box destroys that rythem, talking destroys the rythem, talking, gun jambs, broken birds comming out of the house, a poor thrower, man darned near anything can be a problem.
5: Safety, when an O/U is cracked open, everybody can see it and they know that it is relatively safe.
6: And lastly for me, nothing points, swings or carries like an O/U, absolutely nothing.
hoosierdaddy
New member
I have registered nearly 10,000 sporting clays targets and agree with Michael completely.
I've shot everything from Remington 870s to Perazzi MX2000s. There are an awful lot of big name shooters on the sporting clays circuit that have switched to autoloaders. Most get paid or at leeast get free guns to shoot them. The big dogs can win with an H&R Topper if it shoots where their looking.
In my neck of the woods trap shooters generally shoot single barrel shotguns. The ones with a little coin shoot Lutics, Perazzis, K80 and KS5s or Browning BT99s and BT100s.
Generally only the trapshooters shooting more than one disipline pr trap doubles shoot O/Us. At least that's how it is in my slice of the country.
Cheers!
I've shot everything from Remington 870s to Perazzi MX2000s. There are an awful lot of big name shooters on the sporting clays circuit that have switched to autoloaders. Most get paid or at leeast get free guns to shoot them. The big dogs can win with an H&R Topper if it shoots where their looking.
In my neck of the woods trap shooters generally shoot single barrel shotguns. The ones with a little coin shoot Lutics, Perazzis, K80 and KS5s or Browning BT99s and BT100s.
Generally only the trapshooters shooting more than one disipline pr trap doubles shoot O/Us. At least that's how it is in my slice of the country.
Cheers!
hoosierdaddy
New member
If you ever get the hankering for a decent O/U I can probably get you a good deal on a slightly used Ruger Red Label. My club has about 7 of them just collecting dust. Most of the shotgun snobs walk right past them. I just picked up a 28 gauge 50th Annevesary Red Label for $950 NIB.
scattergunner
New member
Michael pretty much nailed it. When it comes to mechanical simplicity, balance, safety, reliability, and generally speaking; ease in target acquisition and follow through, a O/U is pretty hard to beat.
When you consider you're only shooting 2 targets at each station, the O/U gives you all you need, ease in reloading,and you always know how many rounds are in your gun.
A lot of guys at the skeet and trap clubs, as well as the sporting clays course, are using auto's more and more. Probably largely due to the easing in felt recoil. You can shoot a Benelli or Beretta auto all day, even with the hottest trap loads, and you'll hardly feel a thing.
I've got a Beretta 391, in addition to my pump action guns, and personally prefer autos. But there are a lot of fine O/U's out there and they're not all over $2000. The suggestion to look at the Ruger Red Label is a good one. Some guys think they're a little heavy, but I don't. I don't mind a little heft in my gun, makes for easier follow through among other things, IMHO. Also, look for the Franchi Alcione. Fairly inexpensive (under $1000) and has a transferable barrel system allowing you to have 20 ga. and a 12 ga., essentially. You can also find some good deals on used Beretta 686's and Browning Citori's from time to time.
When you consider you're only shooting 2 targets at each station, the O/U gives you all you need, ease in reloading,and you always know how many rounds are in your gun.
A lot of guys at the skeet and trap clubs, as well as the sporting clays course, are using auto's more and more. Probably largely due to the easing in felt recoil. You can shoot a Benelli or Beretta auto all day, even with the hottest trap loads, and you'll hardly feel a thing.
I've got a Beretta 391, in addition to my pump action guns, and personally prefer autos. But there are a lot of fine O/U's out there and they're not all over $2000. The suggestion to look at the Ruger Red Label is a good one. Some guys think they're a little heavy, but I don't. I don't mind a little heft in my gun, makes for easier follow through among other things, IMHO. Also, look for the Franchi Alcione. Fairly inexpensive (under $1000) and has a transferable barrel system allowing you to have 20 ga. and a 12 ga., essentially. You can also find some good deals on used Beretta 686's and Browning Citori's from time to time.
Dakota Yote
New member
I have always hunted with a Rem. 870 but purchased a Franchi Alcione field grade last fall. It took a little getting used to but I sure got to liking it. I got a 12 ga. but am looking to pick up the 20 ga. barrels before I got to AZ to visit friends and shoot Quail this fall. I could never understand why the o/u's were so popular with the kind of price tag that goes with them. Now I know.
Don't forget skeet shooters with o/u guns can use subgauge tube sets. Turns a 12 into a 20, 28, and/or 410. You only have to get used to one gun.
I'm not a nice person. I personally love scuffing 12 gauge hot load shooters with my 410. Makes them scratch their heads or other parts.....
RudeDawg
I'm not a nice person. I personally love scuffing 12 gauge hot load shooters with my 410. Makes them scratch their heads or other parts.....
RudeDawg
Michael J. McCasland
New member
Have you ever sold or traded something that you absolutely shouldn't have? Well I had an SKB O/U that I truly loved, it was bored Skeet/Skeet and fit me like a glove. On a bad day I might drop on or two more birds with it and it was hell on Doves. Occasionally I'd meet up with a 12ga dove hunter and he'd comment on how well my little 20ga did on doves, "I'd say yea it does all right", crack it open and add, "for a 410". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Good question T. I too cary the 1300 in the field and have great success with it. Great response Michael. You hammered that list out like a champ. It also keeps the white trash like me out of the sport. LOL. My brother shoots the Browning Privelage and a price tag to boot. The one thing that I would like to add to the list is you cannot hoist your nose in the air nor puff on a Ivory pipe and speak with a British accent shooting a $300 pump gun on the range. Check out http://www.winchester21.com/ It's not uncommon to find over and unders that list for as much as 90K. I'll say Ole boy. Pull! My question to Michael is why don't we see side by sides being used like the Model 21?
Try this link gentlemen.
http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/index.htm
http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/index.htm
Michael J. McCasland
New member
Iron Pony - I used a 20ga 870 for years and many people use all manner of field guns so it is not mandatory to use an O/U. Most skeet shooters are also field hunters, you will get away with using about anything and everything while playing the skeet game. If all I had was a pump gun (or semi-auto for that matter) and wanted to shoot skeet I sure as heck would not hesitate to use it. I have always found that skeet shooters are slightly different breed of cat than the trap shooter. In general trap shooters take their game much more seriously. They still are a fun group but slightly different.
Side-by-sides (S/S) are not commonly seen on the range (USA) but it is also not unheard of. I've heard several reasons for this. The relatively wide plain of two s/s barrels can make target aquisition difficult. However a good friend of mine insisted on using a S/S, Larry was a jumpy sort and felt that the wide barrels helped him to focus. He was a darned good shot so I never questioned him on his methods. Most s/s shotguns have small forearms and some barrel heat can be generated during a shoot. There is a barrel sleeve that I've seen used to shield barrel heat. Usually S/S don't eject cases they extract them. The shooter needs to pick the empty out of the chamber, where an ejector basicly delivers empties into the hand. But I am aware that in european driven bird shooting S/S are preferred. This is a sport where a handler loads the guns and hands it to the shooter, two guns, lots of in comming fast shooting. O/U have not prooven to be as handy for what ever reason I don't fully understand.
I shot for a while with a wealthy old gentleman who used old hammer S/S's exclusively. He had a beautiful set of guns, 12, 20, 28 and 410 all matched to their size. The wood was darned near black, the actions and barrels were silvery white. He had style. He'd show up in an English 3 piece suite complete with twill pork pie hat. Watching this old shotgun hand was a picture of grace. He was tall, not quite willowy, with a gracefull balance, he'd step into the box, action open , hammers cocked, load two rounds, close and mount the gun and call for the bird in one steady motion, singles were handled just the same as doubles. When two shots were fired he'd cock both hammers again, open the action and take out the empties. The next station was just the same. He looked, acted and moved like a wealthy english gentilman in every way, but had absolutely no accent.
Side-by-sides (S/S) are not commonly seen on the range (USA) but it is also not unheard of. I've heard several reasons for this. The relatively wide plain of two s/s barrels can make target aquisition difficult. However a good friend of mine insisted on using a S/S, Larry was a jumpy sort and felt that the wide barrels helped him to focus. He was a darned good shot so I never questioned him on his methods. Most s/s shotguns have small forearms and some barrel heat can be generated during a shoot. There is a barrel sleeve that I've seen used to shield barrel heat. Usually S/S don't eject cases they extract them. The shooter needs to pick the empty out of the chamber, where an ejector basicly delivers empties into the hand. But I am aware that in european driven bird shooting S/S are preferred. This is a sport where a handler loads the guns and hands it to the shooter, two guns, lots of in comming fast shooting. O/U have not prooven to be as handy for what ever reason I don't fully understand.
I shot for a while with a wealthy old gentleman who used old hammer S/S's exclusively. He had a beautiful set of guns, 12, 20, 28 and 410 all matched to their size. The wood was darned near black, the actions and barrels were silvery white. He had style. He'd show up in an English 3 piece suite complete with twill pork pie hat. Watching this old shotgun hand was a picture of grace. He was tall, not quite willowy, with a gracefull balance, he'd step into the box, action open , hammers cocked, load two rounds, close and mount the gun and call for the bird in one steady motion, singles were handled just the same as doubles. When two shots were fired he'd cock both hammers again, open the action and take out the empties. The next station was just the same. He looked, acted and moved like a wealthy english gentilman in every way, but had absolutely no accent.
coyotebuster
New member
Another nice thing about over unders that havent been mentioned is you can use two different choke tubes in the same gun at the same time. These are especially nice if your shooting doubles, your first shell would more than likely be improved cylinder or modified, and then on your second bird you might use a full because it would be out further. Yuo can also switch to a differnt barrel if you dont get it right away, click over to your bottom barrel with a full if you hesitate on shooting it. They are expensive, but they look very nice and I think they balance better. With that said, I have shot a red label for trap a lot, (not my gun but a friends)and it is the cats meow. It is expensive however, thats all thats stopping me from getting one. Until then, Ill keep using my 870 express. I have shot against browning citoris and red labels with my 870, and matched them bird for bird.
scattergunner
New member
Michael,
Good points again about SxS's. Pure and simple, it's just not as easy as an O/U to get on a target and turn it to powder.
CB,
The best gun in the hands of the worst shooter will never come close to what the best shooter shooting the worst gun in the world could do. Nice guns don't make people shoot better, if they're lousy to begin with. Keep practicing and knocking them dead with your 870, and when you're older and have the means, spoil yourself with a nice Italian Auto, or good double gun. You may not do any better than you did with your 870, but you'll be able to truly appreciate the difference. You can give the 870 to your children. It will likely last long enough to go to your children's children as well...
BTW, y'all wanna bellyache about the price of O/U, check out what SxS, especially anything from England, Germany, or Italy,are going for. GEESH! I've had cars recently that I couldn't trade straight across for one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Good points again about SxS's. Pure and simple, it's just not as easy as an O/U to get on a target and turn it to powder.
CB,
The best gun in the hands of the worst shooter will never come close to what the best shooter shooting the worst gun in the world could do. Nice guns don't make people shoot better, if they're lousy to begin with. Keep practicing and knocking them dead with your 870, and when you're older and have the means, spoil yourself with a nice Italian Auto, or good double gun. You may not do any better than you did with your 870, but you'll be able to truly appreciate the difference. You can give the 870 to your children. It will likely last long enough to go to your children's children as well...
BTW, y'all wanna bellyache about the price of O/U, check out what SxS, especially anything from England, Germany, or Italy,are going for. GEESH! I've had cars recently that I couldn't trade straight across for one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Just so you pump guy's can feel better about showing up on a trap field, one of the greatest trap shooters of all time was Rudy Echen and he shot an 870. I switch back and forth between a pump (waterfowl) a OU (pheasant and non salt marsh water fowl) and a SXS (grouse woodcock pheasants over pointers) I find SXS faster on and easier on close flushing tight cover birds and OU and pumps more precise on the longer shots. All of my guns are fitted to me and balance about the same. When I was shooting competitively I shot an OU for trap and a SXS for skeet. Now I just grab the one I'm in the mood for and shoot a couple rounds of skeet and then head over to the trap fields and give it a go there.
Most important is to enjoy the games.
AWS
Most important is to enjoy the games.
AWS
Passthru
New member
Go out and try to rack off 2 rounds with your pump as fast as someone can with an O/U,i was watching some guys at the club range the other day shooting trap,those doubles are so fast i could not keep track of them and i was not even shooting. I swear them O/U shotguns are faster than a Semi Auto. Not only do they seem faster but,they was hitting thier targets.
When the shooter is done the gun is open,Very visible that its safe and empty.
When the shooter is done the gun is open,Very visible that its safe and empty.
Catman1771
New member
Its true O/U's are a lot faster because they have relatively no moving parts unlike an auto loader. But the one disadvantage I have noticed with the O/U's is that they can really catch the wind. I know that most trap ranges face north because wind is usually going north to south or south to north but hardly ever east to west or visa versa. But on those days with a very heavy cross wind my barrel seems to shake alot before I call for the rock. Once I start moving the gun to follow the rock it becomes smooth again but the shaking before I call for the rock seems to really change my rhythm and rhythm is everything. Because of this I prefer to shoot a gun with a single barrel.
Also much of trap shooting isn't about the quality of your gun. Of course quality of the gun can affect your scores somewhat but like the saying goes about the man with only one gun, the better you know your gun the more rocks you are going to break. CATMAN
Also much of trap shooting isn't about the quality of your gun. Of course quality of the gun can affect your scores somewhat but like the saying goes about the man with only one gun, the better you know your gun the more rocks you are going to break. CATMAN