19-223 Calhoun

M

mikegranger

Active member
On my way back from the GWN, I stopped in Havre to talk with James Calhoun (just can't force myself to drive past the place). He was reaming a barrel when I walked in and had about 10-15 CZ 450 actions that were waiting for barrels. He is selling quiet a few rifles out of his shop. Does anyone on this board have any experience with the 19? I am thinking of getting one for coyotes but would like some firsthand experience with killing/stopping power of the 19. I know several of you shoot the 17's and this would be very similar. Can I expect 400 yard kills or will the coyote run off on me and die 2 hills over so I can't find it?
 
If you want a 400 yard coyote gun, I wouldn't try a 19. Not enough retained energy, it would be like hitting them with a 22 magnum. I don't even consider a .223 a 400 yard coyote gun, yes, if you hit them just right it will kill them, but something bigger would be better. I'm sure I'll hear all about 500 yard shots with a .223 now. I'm not a coyote lover either, if all I have is a .223 and he's out there at a thousand, I'll probably try to hit him somewhere, just might slow him down enough so he won't catch a baby calf.
 
I think that the .223 is adequate if you use heavier bullets at the longer ranges. I wouldn't personally use a bullet less than 55gr over 350 yards. An accurate .223 with a fast twist shooting a 65-75gr bullet is another story. If you drive a 68gr MHP thru a coyote he is going to go down. My DPMS shoots accurately enough out to 400 yards that if I had a good rest or shooting sticks I wouldn't hesitate to take the shot. That is considering I know how far away he is. Once I have him ranged though its as simple as dialing it up on the turrets and taking the shot. Wind also becomes a big deal at these ranges too. All that said out past 300 yards your much better off with a heavier bullet and as fast as possible. I think that a fast twist on a 22-250 AI or 220 swift would be great with 75gr amax at 3300-3400fps. That would fly like a lazer out to 400++ yards.
 
You need a 19-223.
You can launch up to 44 grain bullets out of it. If you go to www.jamescalhoon.com, you will find that Dan C. put up a trajectory table for a wide variety of loads. You can use that to figure ballistics, as his data is quite complete.

I have one. Unfortuneatly all the mythical stuff about the 17 is duplicated on the 19. Little of it is true.

And it is just plain FUN!! All the little calibers are. I am still putting the final touches on the 19-223/20-223AI switchbarrel.

I would have another barrel done this way.
 
Tackdriver,

Now we're talking. Two folks in Lewistown have a 19-223 but they haven't killed anything with them. Have you used it on coyotes and will it kill them adequately at 400 yards. I like the velocities and retained energies and supposedly it does little fur damage. Let me know what you have experienced. You know how it is, always looking for the fountain of youth and the perfect caliber! I have an AR that has been an absolute joy to shoot this past year and was actually thinking about switching the barrel on it to 19-223. James Calhoon has someone that could do it but I don't get a real warm fuzzy feeling about letting someone practice on my AR barrel. I know some barrel makers are starting to build 20 cal. barrels for the AR but I'm kinda stuck on the 19. Lot more selection of bullet weights.
 
Mikegranger,

Tromix is building twenty caliber ARs now.

The bullet selection in twenty is growing as well. Hornady (33gn), Berger (36gn) Lucas (40gn boat tail) Certech (30gn) Schroeder (3 diff. 40's) plus several other custom shops producing or currently setting up to produce. Its my belief that there will be several more weights readily available in the next 6-8 months.

Not to disparage the .19 in any way (I'd like to try one of the .19 Hornets), but the "long-dormant" .204 (per Calhoun's website) sure is getting un-dormant.

Mike Johnston
 
Hello
I have seen pics of several coyotes shot with a 19 caliber, although not the one we are talking about here. A wild-wildcat version.

From those pics, I think the 19s are fur friendly.
Mine is not yet "complete", so I have not shot any creatures with it, hell, I have yet to find my duty load, but paper results did show promise months ago.

I can tell you that Jim is a straight shooter, I have talked with him several times. And if he says the guy can do the AR for you, then he knows of what he speaks. And I would not worry about it.
 
Oh, and be careful about the 20 calibers.
Commonly when you ask for a 20 caliber you want a nominal dimension of .204"

Some of those bullets are different sizes.
 
Wow, I haven't seen anything other than .204". The only difference I've seen is that some of the ogives on various twenties are set up to perform in 5mm Rem conversions. Schroeder and Certech both have .204 bullets that are designed for that little case.
 
Ok,
I cant find this in my notes just off hand but it applies to 20 caliber bullets that were purpose built for the 5 mil Craig.

That rifle-the591-had a weirdo bore diamter. It is really like .2045

Hence some of the 20 cal bullets built for it are a smidge oversize. Now I am not saying this will cause a problem, but it might. So use due caution.

Now according to Richard Corbin, he has built "20 caliber" swaging dies that ranged anywhere from 199 to 205.

Unlike the 17's --Twenties have never really had an "official" spec attached to them, they have always been wildcats. Mostly when we talk about 20's we are talking about .204" ---These days---

And I have articles about "twenties" that date back to the Viet Nam era. Hence you can find barrel makers and bullet makers doing some strange things sometimes.

Not to scare anybody, twenties are a BUNCH O FUN, just be careful.
 
When you talk historically about "twenty caliber", the variations typically run from .204 to .206 depending on whose idea you're looking at in time. Most of the current development is with the .204 diameter.

The previous post which mentioned the Remington 5MM RF Mag as having a bore diameter of .2045 is correct. I have shot .204 diameter bullets, both Certec and Hornady, and another custom .204 bullet, in a Model 591 5MM Rem Mag. with the Schroeder centerfire conversion and they shoot fine. Apparently the additional .0005" is not significant at 5MM velocities for accuracy.

I haven't purchased any new Schroder bullets in he past year, but his previous bullets were listed as being .2045 diameter.

The point is well taken that if you run across a "twenty caliber" to know what the bore diameter is before you try to shoot it. It might be something out of the ordinary which could cause problems, both in accuracy and more important, with pressure.
 
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