6mm/22 T T H

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Neffquail

New member
What about this new Gun that I just finished reading about in the new Predator Extreme Magazine. 6mm case necked down to shoot .224 cal bullets in all wts and sizes.
Anybody here have any experience with this particular combo?
 
Neffquail,
I have not actually had any expericence with it but i have read and heard about it . It was developed to hunt deer down in South Texas.
I have been hearing about for about the last 2 years and Guns&Ammo (i think ? ) ran a long article on it and a other one (22/243), they were using them for long range (800 yrds + ) PD hunting.
If i remember correctly the name of the article was "Extreme .22's" but i may be wrong.


Sean
 
Hello,
This is not really new. There are many variations of 22-6mm, and most have been around for years. To get the rifle to shoot all the bullets, all you have to do is specify a fast enough twist.

According to the article, you can even handload the thing with "Starky" bullets. Known to us laymen as the "Starke" line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyhoo, if you want some actual handloading data for 22-6mm, go here: www.accuratereloading.com/226rem.html
 
What makes a good article for a magazine, does not nescessarily mean much in the real world.

All the extreme overbore chamberings are way far out in the "land of rapidly diminishing returns." Once to the 22-250, 220 Swift, 22-250AI size, you are at a practical limit. (And those cases are only at their best with heavy bullets and fast twist barrels.) Burning more powder than will fit in those cases does very little for velocity, but will burn out barrels in as little as 300 rounds.

Using a borescope will make you a believer in smaller cases. I could describe the differences till I am blue in the face, but unless you see it first hand, you won't believe it.

Jack
 
Go to rifle-barrels.com and check out the hammer bullets 80 grain .224 bullets.Sounds like an awsome bullet.Has some talk about the .224TTH
 
in regards to 224tth i have one . its a great long range rifle, when used with reloader25 powder and 75gr amax bullets. as far as being a case that is too big for it's bore so is the 7mm shooting times western, and lots of other new ultra mags. if you are interested in finding out about the 224tth email www.tth.com and i'm sure you will be impressed with what they have to say. spike
 
Spike, just curious, how fast are you driving those 75 Amax? And what is your twist?

I've been playing with fast twist/heavy .224's for a little while now. And have discussed them with guys from all over the country who have pioneered the concept. For that matter, I did much of the initial testing for the Starke 80 gr. bullets when Clint first started thinking about ordering those dies and making them. My 8 twist .22-250 barrel was setup specifically to test those bullets in fact.

There is a very real, very practical limitation on this type of setup, related to case capacity, that hardly ever gets mentioned. And that is the fact that these long bullets, at the RPM needed to stabilize them, go "poof" if driven too fast. The 75 Amax is particularly prone to disintegration. That's why I asked about the velocity. I know from my own firsthand experience, as well as second hand accounts from some very knowledgeable and experienced experimenters, that you can push them fast enough to go poof in a .22-250AI. That being the case (and it is), any larger case, is a waste, for this particular bullet.

Some of the other heavies hold up a good bit better than the 75 Amax though - and can take advantage of greater case capacity. For short strings. That is to say, great for predator hunting or any other situation where you only need a single shot or two here and there. But if you are thinking of a long range p-dog or chuck shooting rig, do realize that once you start putting a longer string together, and the barrel starts to get hot and dirty, even the heavier constructed 80 gr. bullets are going to start coming unglued at the velocities attainable with even the .22-250AI. So, again, IF (if, if, if...) you are thinking in terms of longer strings, anything larger than the .22-250AI is a waste. BUT (but, but, but...) if short strings are what you are after, the larger capacity of the .22-243, CHeeta, or .22-6mm can be put to good use.

I've actually backed off the velocity on the 80's in my 8 twist .22-250AI to accomodate the longer strings I shoot with it. I've got them going 3350 fps. I found that at velocity approaching 3500 fps I'd have to stop shooting and clean at about 20-25 rounds or the bullets would start disintegrating. At 3350 fps, so far, I've been able to push my strings much further (have not tried it in hot weather yet). This is with 80 gr. Starke's and Berger's. Friends shooting .22-243's and CHeeta's tell me that the Sierra 80's hold up a bit better. Those guys aren't using their fast twist .22's for long strings like I am. For them, they can push them 3600 fps, with no ill effects. They tell me that at 3700, even the Sierra's starting coming unglued, from a cold clean barrel. This would represent a truely limiting factor in usable case capacity.

- DAA
 
to DAA, my 22-6mm imp has a 1in8 twist. the 80gr sierra's are too fragile in my rifle. the 75gr Amax (not Vmax) are not fragile in my rifle. any lighter bullets when pushed in the 3600fps or faster will not reach the target.i shot at 2x6 fir lumber at 300yds to test the 80sierra and the 75 Amax. This was four years ago before I found out about the 224TTH. the results at 300yds were the 80 sierra made a starting hole the size of a nickle, the nickle size went through 4-2x6's and exited( as best i can remember 4yrs ago) the 75Amax made a small (224size) and did not exit the last board.( 4or5) the flat remains of the 75Amax were 37 or so grains. the conclusion i reached was the 80gr was blowing up on the surface but the pieces pushed through, hence the nickle size hole from surface to end. the 75Amax because it stayed together (some what) met more resistence, also flattening was not able to exit. the reason i had the rifle built was to shoot long range, not for prairie dogs. i did try the 80gr's on prairie dogs useing a range finder, and had a spoter with a 20power scope marking the shots. the hits were up to 900yds. it took many trips to the desert to log the clicks up to that distance. two or three years later i saw a hunting show on tv called the texas trophy hunter. they were touting a 224tth as a good killer of deer size game up to 300yds. since I never had any one to compare notes( bullets) with I emailed the Texas trophy hunters, and they were nice enough to send me lots of information. what i had found out about the 75Amax was true. this is a quote from the TTH .varmints, as well as deer and hogs, can be takenwith a numberof bullets that we've used. the 75-gr hornady Amax is a sure bet at velocities up to 3,650fps. the 60 nosler partionis also excellent at this same velocity. also the 64gr winchester at 3,650. I'm sure if you were to email the texas trophy hunters they would send you all the information... or if you like maybe i could fax you the info they sent me. hope this is of some help. Spike
 
Spike, myself and some friends have put a LOT of 75 Amax downrange on varmints. It's a GREAT bullet. Very accurate, cuts the wind almost like magic, good expansion even at extended range. Our experience has been that with a fairly new barrel, cold and clean, the 75 Amax can do just fine with some pretty serious velocity - just like you are doing. But once the throat starts to get a little bit rough from use, and or the barrel gets hot and dirty (which won't happen with hunting predators or deer), they just won't take the velocity. I could push them 3600 fps for quite a few shots in a row before they would start blowing up when my barrel was new. But now that it has about 600 rounds on it, less than half of them make the target starting out at that velocity. That's clean and cold. Hot and dirty, none of them make it at that velocity anymore. In order to keep them together for a long string, I've got to slow them down all the way to about 3250 fps now. I was actually able to get away with driving them faster for longer than any of the other guys I know playing with them. But, like you say, I'm shooting p-dogs and chucks with them, you are not. Makes a lot of difference whether that barrel is clean and cold or hot and dirty! Anyway, we have found that we can push the 80's faster, for longer strings, before they start disintegrating - but they defnitely don't rug out varmints as spectacularly as the Amax!

These long heavy .224's really are a kick in the pants though aren't they? Until someone has spent some time shooting them at longer range, especially in the wind, they really can't appreciate what it is that is so neat about them. I took my 8 twist on an organized p-dog shoot with about 10 guys from all over the country last spring. Every one of them that used the rifle came away wanting one like it, real bad!

- DAA
 
Spike sounds like a great setup you have. What I think Jack meant is that overbored chambering is more of a problem in .224. I have a CHeetah that has shot out 3 barrels and the longest life of any was the first. It was a 1-9 Hart with 770 rounds thru it. The other 2 were also Harts but in 1-8, and they took about a 100- 200 rounds less than the first. The barrel on it now is a 1-9 again and I've detuned the loads down to 3400 fps with 80gr JLKs. Hopefully I can make the 1000 mark with this one. Roadrunner
 
My experience with the heavy VLD bullets and fast twist barrels agrees with DAAs. The way they buck the wind at long range is almost unbelievable. But they do like new, smooth, cold barrels.

Barrels do not stay smooth very long with the larger cases. Having an occasional bullet blow-up shooting PDs is acceptable. Having even one bullet blow-up in a 50 shot match, will take you from first place to tenth or worse. That is why match shooters won't even use the 243 any more. The barrel life is just too short. They shorten the case to the 6XX or use it in 6.5-08.

Jack
 
to DAA, checking my notes on velocity for the 224 tth out of a 30" barrel with a 80 gr sierra 51grs of re25 gives 3500fps. I use 50grs of re25 with a 75amax. the velocity is unknown but should be at least 3400 plus. the fact that it groups tight at 300yds, so i can target my bullets on paper to learn the clicks needed to hit at specific yards. limited by target size necessary to print bullets on paper at long range. shooting has to be early in the morning before the wind drifts bullets off the paper. i also found out that clicks needed for the 224tth are similar to my 6mm-284 out to 900yds. why I did not shoot at targets beyond 900yds? probably cause of range finder limitations, and practical targets to shoot at(can't remember what else). sierra gave me the ballistics for my elevation 7000 ft and eastern 2000 ft, but what i found was different. but in my mind the 224tth is a joy to shoot, accuracy, lack of recoil, relatively economical compared to the larger magnums. nothing more frustrating than lots of recoil, noise, and missing the set target at long range. been there done that. spike
 
hi jack roberts, noticed you are from elko, i saw a hunting paper from nevada last fall with lots of howa gun dealers listed. at the time howa's perforance was unkown to me. would you be so kind as to send me the address or phone number of a howa dealer. thank you spike
 
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