Predator Masters using UBB.threads ™ Infopop Corporation.
PM Gear Moon & Weather

Welcome to the Predator Masters Forums
Be sure to visit the main Predator Master website at





PM Gear
PM Gear
PM Gear
The Official Predator Masters Search Engine
Loading

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#630985 - 01/24/08 06:22 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: npbb4]
BruceT Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 183
Loc: Northern Maine
Coyotes do kill larger animals.They kill both deer and moose by hamstringing them.Here in Maine they hunt in both family and larger packs.They have even learned to run deer into a ambush by having some of the pack chasing them barking and carrying on then all the sudden you will hear the deer give out a big bawl when the coyote catches it in ambush.I have followed deer tracks in the snow hunting and have seen where coyotes have tracked and jumped on them in the deer's bed.My brother who had no gun at the time witnessed a coyote run down and kill a healthy doe deer.So yes I believe they can and will kill calves.
_________________________
VEGETARIAN-Old indian term for bad hunter

Top
#630986 - 01/25/08 02:28 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: BruceT]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
Bruce, No one argues that coyotes kill calves, that isn't the debate.It is how many,how freqauntly, and how big is the issue.
Deep snow conditions are far different and you bring in a "special" set of circumstances that effect prey and predator alike. Moose? How big are these moose and what weather conditions do you find these moose depredated on the most? In fact many coyotes turn to carrion eating when the opportunity presents it self durring cold weather and the availabilty is good. One needs to be able to tell the differance between feeding upon and killing.

Top
#630987 - 01/25/08 02:47 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: ADCcoyote]
howler Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 2022
Loc: Glasgow, Mt.
coyotes are so ruthless and deadly all they really have to do is stare at the critter and they will drop dead with fear.

Top
#630988 - 01/25/08 04:42 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: ADCcoyote]
BruceT Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 183
Loc: Northern Maine
Quote:

Bruce, No one argues that coyotes kill calves, that isn't the debate.It is how many,how freqauntly, and how big is the issue.
Deep snow conditions are far different and you bring in a "special" set of circumstances that effect prey and predator alike. Moose? How big are these moose and what weather conditions do you find these moose depredated on the most? In fact many coyotes turn to carrion eating when the opportunity presents it self durring cold weather and the availabilty is good. One needs to be able to tell the differance between feeding upon and killing.



Fully grown moose.Find them year round.The coyotes kill thaem all diffrent ways from driving them out on thin ice so they break through the ice with their front legs and no the moose did not do this on their own as I back tracked everything to find out to running the moose day after day after day.The coyotes either get the moose hamstrung or the moose finaly fall over from loose of blood.I go right into the deer yards and see where good healthy deer are killed by coyotes.Coyotes will turn to any thing for food to survive from killing their own prey to eating grass and apples.They will eat carrion but will also catch and kill good healthy deer and moose and not just in the deep snow either.
_________________________
VEGETARIAN-Old indian term for bad hunter

Top
#630989 - 01/25/08 04:45 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: howler]
BruceT Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 183
Loc: Northern Maine
Quote:

coyotes are so ruthless and deadly all they really have to do is stare at the critter and they will drop dead with fear.



No actually what makes them ruthless to me is the fact that they will run down does heavy with fawn,catch the doe then eat the fawn right out of the doe without killing her first.
_________________________
VEGETARIAN-Old indian term for bad hunter

Top
#630990 - 01/25/08 05:47 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: BruceT]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
Full grown moose on the ice is something they could pull off, durring the spring/summer? Well I would have to see it to believe it "sorry".

Top
#630991 - 01/25/08 05:55 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: ADCcoyote]
BruceT Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 183
Loc: Northern Maine
Quote:

Full grown moose on the ice is something they could pull off, durring the spring/summer? Well I would have to see it to believe it "sorry".


I've seen it happen.They either get the moose hamstrung or the moose dies from lack of blood after the coyotes keep at it for days.Its not a pretty picture.Believe what you want.I believe alot more of what I actualy see in the woods then alot of what is written.The biologists said for years that coyotes only kill unhealthy or old deer.Its been proven otherwise.Now they finaly admit that coyotes do kill healthy deer.

Top
#630992 - 01/25/08 06:14 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: BruceT]
ADCcoyote Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 766
Loc: Somewhere out west,east of the...
I have never, would ever state coyotes don't kill healthy deer,calves,lambs,ewe's! I do have a hard time believing healthy adult moose in any numbers at all fall prey to coyotes durring times with zero advanatge to those coyotes ie: Spring/summer months.Ice is an equailizer for those coyotes as it does the work in alot of cases numbers or size can not!

I would think if they are pulling down 600+ lb moose that cows would be little problem and your state would have a big issue if those numbers of being "typical" on moose you state are correct.

Wolves take moose and the majority are done in the winter in snow conditions, yes big healhty moose. To get around a cow moose and her calves would not be benefical for coyotes! Sure your coyotes range a little bigger than others but still even 4-6 of them on dry ground in the summer versus a 600+lb cow moose? Rarely yes, typical NO!

I have spent many years around coyotes, given not your NE types but many would die from a good stomping of those long legs.Do you have any data to back up your findings? It is like those that think with a coyote bounty you can reduce livestock loss! Sounds good but the facts do not bear it out to be true! That is a narrow minded approach from those looking to gain directly from a bounty and given a false sense of security to those that raise livestock for profit!

Any biologist worth his salt and time a field would not make such a statement that they only kill the weak and the meak on deer,ewe's,lambs or any other critter. Circumstances and opportunity can make many things happen, without them though a different story. Very large ungulates and coyotes are not a good fit as far as prey base goes or depredation at a % of loss to be concerned with. Note the very large part!

Top
#630993 - 01/25/08 06:51 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: ADCcoyote]
BruceT Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 183
Loc: Northern Maine
Here in Maine for years they all said that untill they were proven wrong.
I spend alot of time in the woods and know what I see for a fact.Not saying you but I have found that alot of people just repeat what they have read about something and don't go out in the woods to see for themselves.I believe what I see and only what I read when I see it for myself.
_________________________
VEGETARIAN-Old indian term for bad hunter

Top
#630994 - 01/30/08 12:34 AM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: BruceT]
ccw Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 201
Loc: Central Texas
Ive never seen a coyote attack a cow or calf except when calving. Cows are pretty good at protecting themselves just ask anyone whos been kicked. We have more problems with buzzards around here eating the soft parts of a cow or calf (eyes or butt) during birth. The coyotes usually just go after the placenta.(ewww)

Top
#630995 - 01/30/08 12:59 AM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: ccw]
Jack Roberts Offline
Admin/moderator

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 15810
Loc: Elko, NV formerly MD
Quote:

Ive never seen a coyote attack a cow or calf except when calving. Cows are pretty good at protecting themselves just ask anyone whos been kicked. We have more problems with buzzards around here eating the soft parts of a cow or calf (eyes or butt) during birth. The coyotes usually just go after the placenta.(ewww)



I agree. Buzzards and domestic dogs kill 10 times the calves coyotes do.

Jack
_________________________

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going."
"Yeah, to where the going's easier." Ben Bova

Top
#630996 - 01/30/08 06:25 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: Jack Roberts]
JCL Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/15/06
Posts: 619
Loc: Wyoming
It depends on many factors but yes coyotes do take a few calves every spring in this area of Wyoming. Wildlife Services (ADC) of the USF&W runs on the theory its a learned behavior which a few coyotes learned to do. Yes, cows are very protective and full size cow is off the menu unless something else happens to it. I have not seen one kill a calf but the ones that were determined to be killed by coyotes had tremdous bruising under the skin on the neck right behind the lower jaw. All were calves less than a few days old. Maybe they were sick calves that the coyotes finished off when the cow went to water or feed hard to tell but they were killed by coyotes according to the Wildlife Services investigators.

How do coyotes kill? From my observations of coyotes attacking fawn deer on two separate ocassions they will grab its throat pulling it down. Both times I witnessed this it was a pair of coyotes and the other coyote was being chased by the doe and the other member of the pair would dart in. After 7 or 8 attacks on the fawn it was unable to get up then both coyotes started working the doe deer. She eventually after 10 minutes of this attack moved off and left the fawn which was claimed by the coyotes. I have helped post sheep to determine what killed them by skinning back the hide over the throat and looking for bruising. Apparently they manage to damage the windpipe enough the animal will suffocate as it swells or they hold it shut.

When they consume any large animal the internal organs are normally the first to be eaten in my experiences on finding coyote kills that are fairly fresh. I think that with horses and cows they have a tough time getting through the hide to the quarters. They will get it done eventually just the internal organs must be easier of more perfered.

Had a rancher once also show me two calves that had died about the same time. Coyotes had eaten one to the bone and not touched the second one. Rancher claimed that they wouldn't eat the second one because he had given it several large dosages of antibiotic just piror to its death and they don't seem to like eating calves that have had this treatment. Anybody else ever heard of that?

Top
#630997 - 01/31/08 10:03 AM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: JCL]
Marlin 25-36 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 272
Loc: Eastern New York
I know the coyotes around here will not touch an animal that died of illness until it has been out rotting for 7 to 10 days first. They will take a dead newborn right away but not adults. They won't touch it even if you just shoot it without treatments. Once rotten, they come right in and eat up.

Top
#630998 - 01/31/08 12:37 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: Marlin 25-36]
Three 44s Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/03/05
Posts: 2429
Loc: Washington St.
Years ago a neighboring rancher SWORE coyotes did NOT kill calves.

...... that is until one day ..... he happened upon a coyote that had a hold of a fair sized young calf of his.

Here all at once ...... a former NON-BELIEVER pulling on one end of his calf and on the other ...... MR. COYOTE ........ hangin ON ..... refusing to let go!!!!!! ..... no equalizer handy .... the rancher won out when the coyote wore out.

Score one more believer!

*******************************

How do coyotes pull down young bovine calves?

With ours .... their favorite kill shot is to grab the flank right in front of the hind quarters and pull out the intestines.

The largest calf I remember being nailed by 'otes was about a month and a half. It was NOT sick ..... it's mother was preoccupied with the bulls ..... junior was left unattended too long.

Alpha 'otes with cattle experience and a den w/ pups in your range or pasture unit bring on the SUREST kills!

With domestic dogs we have most of our problem with them running stocker sized cattle.

Three 44s


Edited by Three 44s (01/31/08 12:53 PM)

Top
#630999 - 01/31/08 04:37 PM Re: How Do Coyotes Kill Calves? [Re: Three 44s]
IBgunner Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 485
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas 67801
I have to change some of the opinions I just stated earlier in this thread. Just got word from a large rancher south of here and coyotes are playing havoc with his calving season. He has a pack dragging down fully mobile calves and attacking cows in the process of calving... substantial losses and some of us have been called in to do something about it. I know he has a healthy, closely monitored herd. I am inclined to agree with some others in this thread about Alphas teaching and training other dogs to take out calves. We are working out a trapping and calling strategy but from the evidence he presented to me I believe we are going to have to take a significant portion of them or this trend will continue. There is plenty of game this season and there have not been unusually difficult weather patterns. These coyotes are hitting his herd because it is easy and they know how to do it. I don't see any other environmental patterns except that there is a high proportion of mange in those taken at this point. But I'd say that we have to significantly reduce the local population or it will continue.

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Yellowhammer 

Forum Stats
48108 Members
83 Forums
286607 Topics
2709407 Posts

Max Online: 3771 @ 02/03/14 09:55 PM
Today's Birthdays
7mmCritterGetter, bearmanric, DC, FIREMAN40X, FreddeJ78, Lane_Christensen, Mexia Cop, TheReaper, Timberbeast7, wildyote, William Hobbs

© Predator Masters™, All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.