Question for .40 S&W reloaders

DocCoyote

DocCoyote

New member
I've been kicking around the idea of starting to reload for my .40 S&W and have noticed that all the load manuals warn you to make sure your barrel fully supports the case in the chamber. What's the deal with this warning? What pistols do not fully support the case? I have an XD40, does this fully support the case?

Second series of questions: I see that the Hodgdon manual has a load for 180gr Hornady XTP bullet being pushed to 1159fps with 8.0gr of Longshot; this is about 200fps faster than most factory loads. Would this load be too hard on my pistol? Would I need to buy a heavier recoil spring for this load? Are factory .40 S&W loads intentionally loaded light because of the aforementioned warning, similar to 45-70 and the old trapdoor springfields?

Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

--edited for velocity and load data--
 
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Here's the deal.

There have been a bunch of KaBooms associated with the 40S&W cartridge in weapons.
The cartridge is pretty high pressure even in standard factory loadings.

You reloading manual to get that high of a velocity with 180 grain is really high and can only be shot in a fully supported chamber. That velocity is usually only seen in 10mm loads.

Checking to see if your barrel is fully supported is easy.
Field strip your pistol and remove the barrel. With the barrel removed from the weapon insert an inert piece of 40 S&W brass and the only side view of the inserted brass that should be visable is the rim for the ejector and the rim below the feed ramp. If any part of the round brass cylinder is visable, your chamber is not fully supported.
Some guns that do not have fully supported chambers include 1911 style weapons, Glock, Ruger and Smith and Wesson to name a few.

I have not personally inspected a Springfield XD, so I can not say for sure.
 
The worst offender by far is Glock, Glock KB's are almost becoming and industry joke, and the Glock models in 40 S&W seem to be the most likely to KB (blow up).

Glock KB's

Graphic Photo of lack of chamber support

I don't think the XD has a big problem, but keep in mind if you scrounge brass that a lot of it may have come out of a Glock, and the brass be weakened from that, so it's best to keep 40 S&W loads on the moderate side.

I don't have my loading books handy but that load sounds like it would be pretty hot, Hodgdon's online loading info shows loads using bullets in that weight mostly under 1,000 fps.
 
I have shot that load in my glock 35 with once fired brass cases bulged big time,I would never load that hot in a 40s&w unless i had a barsto barrel in it and then i would probably back off to 8.0gr or less.

I load longshot for my 10MM's pushing 180gr bullets at 1300fps.

Gary
 
I made a mistake in my data above that has since been corrected. The correct data is 1159fps with 8.0gr of Longshot. That still seems pretty hot to me, though it does not develop excessive pressure.
 
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I don't have my loading books handy but that load sounds like it would be pretty hot, Hodgdon's online loading info shows loads using bullets in that weight mostly under 1,000 fps.



Thanks, Wingman for those great links. I'm sure glad I didn't buy a Glock! I inspected my XD40S and it is fully supported.

I got the load from Hodgdons 2006 Loading Manual.
 
I load two loads for my Ruger 40:
1) target load - got a 6 cavity lee mold that throws the 175 grain semi wad-cutter. with a bottom pour pot you can make 600 or so good bullets an hour. I load these with a starting load of win231, pretty mild. these do lead the barrel after a while. cost per shot is ridiculously cheap if i don't count my time scrounging wheel weights, casting, reloading, etc... NOTE: cast bullets should not be fired in glock or any polygonal rifled barrel. Kabooms happen doing this.

2) serious load - nosler 135 grain jhp - here's some loads from alliant: 40 s&w loads
The load with Unique has good speed but lower pressure.
 
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As to case pressure, and feel free to correct me on this but

once upon a time I read in a gun magazine that the reason for the Recommended Overall Length of the 40S&W was due to that length being the longest that would feed from the short S&W clip in the chamber, since they used a smaller clip (like out of their 9mm) to develop the cartridge and used in their first guns offered in 40S&W. The bullet just wouldn't feed into the chamber with the longer rounds in the Smiths.

So, since a lot of other brands developed guns and magazines specificially for this round, and since most of them used longer clips,
a reloader could decrease case pressure in these brands with the "longer clip" by just lengthening the bullet a bit or by seating the slug further out of the cartridge.

Please don't use this idea unless we get others confirming that this works. I done this with no bad results, feeding or otherwise, while loading for a Glock 22 in 40S&W. However, I also don't load them hot, their just milder range loads.
 
OAL is very important to control pressures, back when the Rainier plated bullets first came out there wasn't any loading info for them, the suggestion was to load them like lead bullets, so I bought 1,000 45 cal 200 gr SWC plated bullets and loaded them exactly the same as the 45 acp 200 gr SWC lead bullets I had been using for years, 200 gr SWC, 5.0 gr of WW231, a very moderate load. This was before the internet was available to the public.

I took those out to shoot them and I started blowing primers, the brass was ruined by the primer pockets being blown out, I didn't change anything! I started loading them lighter and lighter, I finally got to where I could shoot them at about 3.0 gr of powder, I couldn't understand what was going on. Many years later I remembered that problem and asked on Brian Enos message board, the suggestions centered on bullet seating depth, I hadn't changed the OAL when I loaded them, but I guess the bullets must have been taller, and when loaded to the same length there was less space for powder under the bullet. I still had about 10 of those left over, so I loaded those up with 5.0 gr of WW231, but at a longer OAL and tried them, they worked fine!

This was a learning event, I had never run into that kind of problem before, and now I had a graphic illustration how important it was to pay attention to the OAL listed in the books.

I'd like to point out that when this happened there was NO INFO available specific to plated bullets, and there still isn't much available, Rainier did have some loading data on their website a couple of years ago, but it's no longer there, and this problem was definitely PRE INTERNET.
 
I reload for my H&K USP 40, usually with Gov't range pickup brass that came from a Glock,( Mod 22 I think). I've read the warnings and had a detailed discussion about this with a gun shop owner. I load in the mid range with H Universal and a 165 grn Berry's plated bullet. I think my load is at 5 grns. I have some HP's with just over 6 grns Universal that chronograph near 1100 FPS. Your 180 grns at over 1150 seem a little hot to me. I look the brass over and have never had any problems. The round does operate at a higher pressure than some older auto rounds. I think if you kept your loads reasonable & at the proper OAL you would be fine. I like H Universal for the 40 S&W and also my lighter loads in 38's, 357's, & 44's. The burning rate is about right & it's clean.
 
There must be a mis print or something with 180's running that fast out of a 40 S & W! I would call them to check this data to see if they made a mistake! WW 231 should do all you will need in your 40 S & W and get you more loads per lb as well.
 
The fully supported case mishaps are guys trying to turn the 40 into a magnum. I have loaded thousand of rounds for my glocks and have never had a problem, have reused the brass up to 9 times, and yes I use the bulged up range brass also, straightens right out once ran through the dies. Now granted I'm not making up loads to blow through armor plating, mostly punch paper and shoot steel plates. have had my best groupings with alliant powders, power pistol and unique, the power pisol feels alot softer shooting and better for follow up shots. My favorite loads are with berry plated 165g.and 6.0 grains of power pistol coal of 1.120 and 5.8g of unique with 165g. berry's the same length.
 
Longshot is one of the racier powders for 40 S&W and 10mm. It's been called LoudShot because of the report and fireball. Not a good round if trying to correct a flinching problem.

peace.
unloaded
 
I've been reloading .40 S&Ws and 10mms for several years and have to watch my brass very closely as I shoot both unsupported and supported barrels. I have an Ed Brown .40 barrel that has such a tight chamber that brass used in either of my two other barrels won't fit, even with full length resizing.

I use VitaVourhi powders only and find that 5.5-6.0gr is about max. for comfortable shooting and lack of brass stress.

If I'm looking for full power levels, I stick with factory loads, but since most of my handgun shooting is in connection with competitions, the lighter loads are more condusive to faster follow-up shots.

For my .40s, I use everything from 135-180gr bullets depending on what power factor is involved in the competition. For my 10mms, I use mostly 155-180gr with an occassional 200HP for hunting or power specific competition and still allows for lighter powder loading.
 
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