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#498555 - 08/20/06 06:38 PM red fox vs. grey fox
boogercounty Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 328
Loc: southern Mo.
...last year, two grey females raised a total of 6 pups, here behind my house. I have them on video, with most of the pups in the viewfinder at the same time. There was, one morning, a total of 9 foxes, in the brush at the edge of my yard. Three of these were adults.

This year, I have seen the grey adults, once or twice. However, my son and I have seen a red fox, on several different occasions, here around the house. He(?) is working the garbage-dumping site where we throw household garbage. He has crossed the yard in broad open daylight, and came within just a few feet of the house.

My question is this: Will a red fox run greys out of an area???

Several locals have said, "Yes", but I don't know if they know what they are talking about. This red seems to not be afraid of us, as he crossed the edge of the carport, one morning, with us standing there, and my son lip-squeaking.

Anyhow, we've not seen much of the greys, this year.

Does anyone have an answer or opinion???

Thanks.
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#498556 - 08/20/06 07:39 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: boogercounty]
Over_Kill Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 463
Loc: Australia
I have no idea about reds and greys but ive seen a video of a red fox being affraid of a household cat running away and acting all skitish. A male red fox will fight another male red for territory, generally there will be a dominant male in a particular area, generally depending on food supply, if food supply is not great i counldn't imagine a dominant male wanting the area. Im not sure if this applies for reds and greys it may, if it does id say the red would tell the grey where to go being the bigger fox. Interesting subject.
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#498557 - 08/20/06 07:42 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: boogercounty]
cb375hh Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Detroit MI
That is a good question? In my area they seem to live in the same area and cover. Last year I gutted a deer and in the morning when I came back there was 2 sets of fox tracks in the snow 1 was a grey and 1 was a red they came in from two different directions but when they reached the gut pile it looked like the red fox ran the grey fox off but I couldn't really be sure. The red was much bigger so I don't know if the size is more important than weather it's a grey or a red.
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#498558 - 08/20/06 07:50 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: Over_Kill]
R.Shaw Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 370
Loc: Nebraska
In my area, reds and greys do not share the same habitat. Greys are in the more brushy areas while the reds are in the more open. For the most part, they do not compete for the same food source. They seem to get along.

Greys are much more aggressive than a red. Reds are pretty weak, while the grey is stocky and has more grit. If push comes to shove, the grey would do the pushing.

Randy

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#498559 - 08/20/06 08:38 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: R.Shaw]
beagler Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 8190
Loc: lackawanna county,PA
I don't believe reds will run off greys. I do know that coyotes like eating both reds and greys.
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#498560 - 08/20/06 08:47 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: beagler]
Jack Roberts Offline
Admin/moderator

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 15814
Loc: Elko, NV formerly MD
In Maryland they seem to get along. The grays are more nocturnal than the reds. Daytime calling usually brings in reds and night calling mostly grays.

Jack
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#498561 - 08/21/06 02:15 AM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: Jack Roberts]
Steppinwolf Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/03/06
Posts: 33
Loc: Arkansas
I feel like I'm really getting educated here! My husband and I were having a similar conversation the other night and he told me that areas that were highly concentrated with coyotes, would produce few foxes for hunting because the coyotes ate them. I didn't know that! Beagler you confirmed what my husband said... maybe he's smarter than he looks.

Boogercounty, I wondered if you ever tried feeding the foxes behind your house? A friend of mine had a momma fox behind his house which would actually come up every evening and bark for food. He always kept hotdogs on hand just for the occasion and would toss her a hotdog which she would quickly retrieve and take back to her young'uns who thought they were hidden from view a short distance away.
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#498562 - 08/21/06 07:00 AM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: Steppinwolf]
Jill Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 63
Loc: kentucky
grays will go to tree often when dogs are on them, reds never. i've seen grays treed many times by coonhounds. lol some coonhound eh? reds run much longer and futher and seem to even encourage the dogs to chase them as they will stop and wait for the dogs to catch up and sometimes if the dog loses the trail will stop and bark at the dog to get it back after it. i don't shoot foxes as i think the coyotes kill enough of them anymore. coyotes are what i think needs thinned down. theres more reds now than there used to be maybe because ppl don't trap around here anymore. the fur being so cheap.

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#498563 - 08/21/06 10:40 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: Steppinwolf]
boogercounty Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 328
Loc: southern Mo.
Steppinwolf...(interesting user-name)...Yes, we fed the greys, last year, on a regular basis. Besides putting out the household garbage, I started buying cheap dog food at the Dollar General store.

I would take a butter-bowl full of feed out to the garbage area, and shake the bowl, so the feed would rattle inside. After just a few times doing this, the females got wise, and began to listen for it. They would be at the feed by the time I got back to the edge of the house. Several times, they would be laying in the brush, waiting for the feed bowl. I would rattle it, and see one of them stand up, not 15 steps away. I have it on video, a couple of times.

It was fun to watch the females, as they would try to take food back to the den. If it was just dog food, they wouldn't attempt it, but lots of other kinds of food would be taken. One of the best was stale hamburger buns or biscuits. Momma would take all she could carry in her mouth, and carry it about 15 yards, then drop it and come back to get more. She would then carry the second mouthful to the first pile, drop it, and pick up the first, then on out of sight, to the den. In a minute or so, she would be back to get the 2nd load.

One of the funniest things I witnessed while watching these foxes, was when a stray cat wandered into my yard, one evening.

The cat was a big Tomcat, and he didn't belong here. A young boy was visiting us, and he and I were watching the foxes, that evening, from a bedroom window. Suddenly, one of the Mommas alerted, then took off at a run toward the lower end of the yard. Here comes the big Tomcat, unknowingly heading in the direction of the den, which was probably not over 50 yards outside the yard.

Momma Fox hit the cat at a dead run, bowled him over, then instantly was on top of him. The fur flew, for about 3 or 4 seconds!!! In that short time, Mr. Tomcat decided that this was not the place to be!!! He left, at a high rate of speed, and we have never seen him again!!

We really enjoyed watching these animals, as they raised their young. We watched the pups from their first trip to the feed site with Momma, until they ventured to it on their own. We continued to see 2 or 3 foxes, during the winter. Then, this Spring, we didn't see much of them, but have seen a lot of the red fox.


Edited by boogercounty (08/21/06 10:50 PM)
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#498564 - 08/22/06 06:56 AM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: boogercounty]
Arcticfox Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 405
Loc: Sweden
It's not quite the same as red and grey, but red fox outcompete and kill arctic foxes in the mountains here in Sweden. The reds are not always as timid as many think, I have found the freshly killed carcass of an adult female roe deer (about the size of the whitetail fawns I've seen in winter) with nothing but red fox tracks in the fresh snow. They are also major predators on roe deer fawns.

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#498565 - 08/22/06 07:32 AM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: beagler]
Over_Kill Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 463
Loc: Australia
Quote:

I don't believe reds will run off greys. I do know that coyotes like eating both reds and greys.




Good Call!
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#498566 - 08/22/06 10:36 AM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: Over_Kill]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Well, I've never seen a Gray Fox, fight. But I have seen a boatload of Reds fight Greyhounds. I'd put all my money on a Red.

A Red, is an extremely quick fighter. When it's life is on the line.
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#498567 - 08/22/06 02:13 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: kirby]
ROOSTER Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/20/01
Posts: 490
Loc: Laurelville,Ohio
I saw 2 coyotes chase a Grey up a tree. That's where the pic in my avatar came from. The yotes hauled as soon as the fox went up the tree. They must have spotted me at the same time. Couldn't get a shot on the yotes as the under brush was still thick at that time of the year.(mid Oct.) The Grey lucked out on both counts as fox season was still 2 weeks away. Glad I had my camera with me, at least I took something out of the woods that day.

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#498568 - 08/22/06 05:28 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: Steppinwolf]
beagler Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 8190
Loc: lackawanna county,PA
Quote:

Beagler you confirmed what my husband said... maybe he's smarter than he looks.



I certainly hope you are talking about your husband and not me.
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#498569 - 08/22/06 08:44 PM Re: red fox vs. grey fox [Re: beagler]
KevinH Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 97
Loc: Raven Creek, PA (northeast)
I always heard that a grey would run a red off, as R Shaw said. I was always told that a red wouldnt come into a grey fox sound cuz they were scared of them cuz they are more bold and better fighters and such. Just what I always was told and thought, it might be wrong though Im not sure.

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