I'm in the process of building a new long range Rock Chuck, Prarie dog rifle in 22-250 A.I. The action is a Remington 700 that has been trued, blueprinted and had the lugs lapped in. I bought a Shilen medium heavy varmint, select match grade stainless barrel with a 1 in 12" twist. My question is what is the best barrel length to go with? The blank came in at 28". I'm sure that some trimming needs to be done but I'm certain I could get at least 27". Any thoughts?
22-250 Ackley Improved barrel length??
- Thread starter Ducksoup
- Start date
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Why did you go with a 12" twist? It totally defeats the reason for a 22-250AI because you can't shoot the high BC bullets. The 22-250AI makes a good 300-600 yard rifle with a 9" twist barrel but with a 12" is only a 400 yard rifle at best. You can shoot longer ranges of course but will be giving up a lot of wind drift to the faster barrel.
That said. I use a minimum of 28" on my 22-250AI barrels. Assuming you have a stout taper on it keep the length as long as you can. You should be able to make the finish length only about 3/4 less than the blank. You only need to cut off enough to clean up the marks from the center piloted center drill used on the muzzle.
Jack
That said. I use a minimum of 28" on my 22-250AI barrels. Assuming you have a stout taper on it keep the length as long as you can. You should be able to make the finish length only about 3/4 less than the blank. You only need to cut off enough to clean up the marks from the center piloted center drill used on the muzzle.
Jack
My 12 twist .22-250AI is finished at 26". If going longer isn't going to be an issue with handling for your intended purposes, then I think it's a good idea to get as much length out of the blank as you can. My 8 twist .22-250AI was longer. I actually forget now, but I think it was 30". Anyway, the length definitely provided some "free" velocity.
Jack and I just have to agree to disagree on the fast twist thing. I'm well aware of the BC advantages in the wind and all that. But, for how I actually use a rifle in the field to shoot rock chucks, fast twist large capacity .224's are just a big pain in the rear. I'd rather live with the wind penalty and not deal with all the cleaning and finicky nature of a fast twist .22-250AI.
I've killed a pretty good sized pile of chucks at beyond 500 yards with my 12 twist .22-250AI, and more than just a few at beyond 600 yards with it. Even a couple at 800 yds. I simply can not agree with Jack that a 12 twist is a 400 yd rifle at best. Mine has no problem stepping out further than that. And I don't have to clean it during the day. I can put 80 rounds through it in a day of shooting chucks no problem. No bullet poofs, no sudden drop off in accuracy from a fouled barrel. If a guy is really into long range varmint shooting, then heck yes get a fast twist and learn to deal with the issues that come along with it. But for a guy that just wants to shoot chucks and occasionaly whack some at 5-600 yds, I just don't see that the BC advantage is worth all the other hassle. Just my view, of course.
- DAA
Jack and I just have to agree to disagree on the fast twist thing. I'm well aware of the BC advantages in the wind and all that. But, for how I actually use a rifle in the field to shoot rock chucks, fast twist large capacity .224's are just a big pain in the rear. I'd rather live with the wind penalty and not deal with all the cleaning and finicky nature of a fast twist .22-250AI.
I've killed a pretty good sized pile of chucks at beyond 500 yards with my 12 twist .22-250AI, and more than just a few at beyond 600 yards with it. Even a couple at 800 yds. I simply can not agree with Jack that a 12 twist is a 400 yd rifle at best. Mine has no problem stepping out further than that. And I don't have to clean it during the day. I can put 80 rounds through it in a day of shooting chucks no problem. No bullet poofs, no sudden drop off in accuracy from a fouled barrel. If a guy is really into long range varmint shooting, then heck yes get a fast twist and learn to deal with the issues that come along with it. But for a guy that just wants to shoot chucks and occasionaly whack some at 5-600 yds, I just don't see that the BC advantage is worth all the other hassle. Just my view, of course.
- DAA
bea175
New member
I wouldn't sweat the 1&12 because it will handle most of your shots out to 500 yards if you know your rifle. I will agree with the others, if i was building the rifle it would be with a 1&8 or 1&9 twist and the barrel length would be no longer than 27 inch. Any longer just doesn't improve your Ballistic enought to go to the trouble. I had my 22-250 Ack built with a 1&14 twist and 24.5 inch barrel Number 4 countour Shilen Match SS just for a calling rifle and it is death on Yotes with the 55 Nosler BT and Win 760. I would have been just as well of if i had used the standard 22-250 but i like the 40 degree shoulder because brass strech is much less and I just like Wildcat cal's. I just don't like any barrel over 24 inchs on a calling rifle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
BuzzBee
New member
Duck,
Your 1-12 is fine; you can shoot 60Vmax out to 500yds and beyond. I have a 1-14 Hart in MV cut to 26", I shoot the 55g Btip and it’s very effective to about that range but I shoot it very fast.
22-250 AI is not a good cartrige to shoot much further than that, as any of the .224 for that matter, it can, but there are much better cartriges in 243, 257 or 6.5 intented for the 500m+ arena, plus you have way better longrange bullet section in those calibers.
Back to your original question, I think 26" works out well with the MV contour, it gives a good balance to a scoped 700 action, but you can always weight the stock to offset the longer barrel. Some of my friends have theirs cut to 28", the intention for the longer barrel is they can always cut it to 26" when the throat is shot out after 1200~1800 rounds. As for the performance, I see no meaningful difference between the 28/26, at least not in the real world. My exprience in shot out barrel is just that, they are shot out. You can rechamber and regain some of the tolerance but it will never shoot like a new barrel, most of the times you end up spending more $$ to get it to shoot. With the kind precision us varminter demand from our rifles, it's not worth the time or the savings. So, I hope I made my self clear, my recommendation to you is go with the 26" and never look back.
Buzz
Your 1-12 is fine; you can shoot 60Vmax out to 500yds and beyond. I have a 1-14 Hart in MV cut to 26", I shoot the 55g Btip and it’s very effective to about that range but I shoot it very fast.
22-250 AI is not a good cartrige to shoot much further than that, as any of the .224 for that matter, it can, but there are much better cartriges in 243, 257 or 6.5 intented for the 500m+ arena, plus you have way better longrange bullet section in those calibers.
Back to your original question, I think 26" works out well with the MV contour, it gives a good balance to a scoped 700 action, but you can always weight the stock to offset the longer barrel. Some of my friends have theirs cut to 28", the intention for the longer barrel is they can always cut it to 26" when the throat is shot out after 1200~1800 rounds. As for the performance, I see no meaningful difference between the 28/26, at least not in the real world. My exprience in shot out barrel is just that, they are shot out. You can rechamber and regain some of the tolerance but it will never shoot like a new barrel, most of the times you end up spending more $$ to get it to shoot. With the kind precision us varminter demand from our rifles, it's not worth the time or the savings. So, I hope I made my self clear, my recommendation to you is go with the 26" and never look back.
Buzz
Michael J. McCasland
New member
I think all the above answers are correct. The short 24 & 26 inchers are the way to go for a calling or hunting rifle intended for a carry rig. If you are going after speed in a bench gun there is nothing like barrel inches to get it.
Now for my 22-250 AI
Reamer - I used Jacks reamer, we set it up for a tight .250 neck. This neck requires a little neck turning but nothing extreme.
Barrel manufacturer - Pac-Nor
Twist - 1:9, some of you have called this a fast twist. Well, I suppose it is faster than the 12 or 14's, but it's far from radical. I shoot hornady 75gr match bullets and I can not complain.
Rifling - When buying a custom barrel you have a big decission to make when considering rifling. Naturally you have the cut vs button rifling question to answer, but further you have to decide on how many groves you want. 3, 4, 5, and even 6 are common. I choose 3 groves for my barrel. Why, big flats, fewer corners to clean, measurable increase in barrel life. It simply takes more to burn the throat out of a 3 grove barrel than the more common 4 or 5 grove barrels.
Barrel length - I paid for a barrel that would finish up at 30". Why? Free velocity and the possibility to set the barrel back a time or two.
Barrel contour - I like the relatively unheard of heavy Palma contour. This is a neat contour. for the first 6" it is 1 1/8" dia, then in 1 1/2"s it drops down to 0.94" and is straigt all the way to the end from there.
This is a big heavy rig that will live it's life shooting from a bench. It's certainly not for everybody.
Now for my 22-250 AI
Reamer - I used Jacks reamer, we set it up for a tight .250 neck. This neck requires a little neck turning but nothing extreme.
Barrel manufacturer - Pac-Nor
Twist - 1:9, some of you have called this a fast twist. Well, I suppose it is faster than the 12 or 14's, but it's far from radical. I shoot hornady 75gr match bullets and I can not complain.
Rifling - When buying a custom barrel you have a big decission to make when considering rifling. Naturally you have the cut vs button rifling question to answer, but further you have to decide on how many groves you want. 3, 4, 5, and even 6 are common. I choose 3 groves for my barrel. Why, big flats, fewer corners to clean, measurable increase in barrel life. It simply takes more to burn the throat out of a 3 grove barrel than the more common 4 or 5 grove barrels.
Barrel length - I paid for a barrel that would finish up at 30". Why? Free velocity and the possibility to set the barrel back a time or two.
Barrel contour - I like the relatively unheard of heavy Palma contour. This is a neat contour. for the first 6" it is 1 1/8" dia, then in 1 1/2"s it drops down to 0.94" and is straigt all the way to the end from there.
This is a big heavy rig that will live it's life shooting from a bench. It's certainly not for everybody.
Dittos DAA, I had mine made with the 12 twist too, 55 grain Nosler ballistic tips at honest 4,000 fps, thats what I wanted. Two different trains of thought I suppose witht he faster twist guys wanting to shoot the long,heavy, high
BC bullets.
Ive never worried about BC all that much,at least for a hunting rifle,and at hunting ranges, BC just doesn't factor in all that much. I always figured my 250 AI was a solid 500 yard gun, if I wanted to shoot that far,which I seldom did,unless PD hunting. Im a coyote caller, so it is very rare I shoot at a coyote past 100 yards, but if one was 200 or 300 or 500,and I wanted to take a wack, I never doubted my 250AI would be capable of doing it.
BC bullets.
Ive never worried about BC all that much,at least for a hunting rifle,and at hunting ranges, BC just doesn't factor in all that much. I always figured my 250 AI was a solid 500 yard gun, if I wanted to shoot that far,which I seldom did,unless PD hunting. Im a coyote caller, so it is very rare I shoot at a coyote past 100 yards, but if one was 200 or 300 or 500,and I wanted to take a wack, I never doubted my 250AI would be capable of doing it.
Thanks for all the tips. I contemplated the 1/9" but opted against it for many of the same reasons as DAA. Many who have built 1/9" A.I.'s have gotten less than 1000 rounds before experiancing problems with bullets starting to come apart. In fact I believe it was you Jack, that stated that you expected to get only about 600 rounds out of a fast twist barrel in the 22-250 Ackley? I'm not into changeing barrels after every prairie dog trip! I agree with you ChileRojo, that I expect this gun to be a 500 to 600 yard weapon. I've made honest 400 yard shots with a standard 22-250 and 55 grain Sierra softpoints, (before the plastic tip craze), and I fully expect to gain another 200 yards using the 60 grain V-Max's out of the improved version. This is a pretty stout barrel and it will be going into a benchrest type stock, the brand still to be determined. The scope of choice will be the Leupold 6.5-20. My main concern was do I want to try to eek out every possible FPS by going to the longest possible barrel length or is 26" good enough? Are there potential problems with the longer barrels?
Are ther potential problems with longer barrels?....yes; they don't fit in my safe,and they hang up on low hanging tree branches when rifle is slung ove my shoulder
A 26" barrel ought to serve you just fine,as well as squeeze out the velocity your after. Your going to love the AI, its a great cartridge. One I had wore a 20" barrel, I couldn't wring 4K fps with the 55s, but with 50 grain bullets, it chronographed an honest 4,000, it was a handy,easy to swing calling rifle, one more I wished I had kept
A 26" barrel ought to serve you just fine,as well as squeeze out the velocity your after. Your going to love the AI, its a great cartridge. One I had wore a 20" barrel, I couldn't wring 4K fps with the 55s, but with 50 grain bullets, it chronographed an honest 4,000, it was a handy,easy to swing calling rifle, one more I wished I had kept
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
You are right, I will be pleased if I get 600 rounds from my current 9" twist 22-250AI. A 12" should be good for 8-900 rounds, depending on what you are willing to put up with.
I would never use such a big case for PDs except at longer ranges. If you only use it for shots beyond 300 yards it will last a while. Use something with a smaller case and much better barrel life for the shots within 300 yards, which is usually 90% of your shots.
My current philosophy, always subject to change as I buy more barrels, is to use a 221 on anything within 200 yards, a medium twist 223 out to 300, a fast twist 22-250AI from 300 to 600, and a 280AI fast twist from 500 to 1500.
I really don't do much shooting beyond 500 yards at live targets anymore. It is just too much hassle to get all the stuff set up that you need to insure even a 75% success rate for the first shot.
Jack
I would never use such a big case for PDs except at longer ranges. If you only use it for shots beyond 300 yards it will last a while. Use something with a smaller case and much better barrel life for the shots within 300 yards, which is usually 90% of your shots.
My current philosophy, always subject to change as I buy more barrels, is to use a 221 on anything within 200 yards, a medium twist 223 out to 300, a fast twist 22-250AI from 300 to 600, and a 280AI fast twist from 500 to 1500.
I really don't do much shooting beyond 500 yards at live targets anymore. It is just too much hassle to get all the stuff set up that you need to insure even a 75% success rate for the first shot.
Jack
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
There is one very small problem with longer barrels. They are not quite as accurate as shorter barrels. At longer ranges the increased velocity more than makes up for the slight decrease in short range grouping.
Jack
Jack
Jack, I've got about 1500 rounds on my current 12 twist .22-250AI (a Lilja 6 groove). Barrel is still going strong. I have not actually shot paper with it for a couple of years now, so don't know how the aggs are holding up. But it is still my main rock chuck rifle, and still maintaining a very high hit to miss ratio. A couple weeks ago I put together a string where I went 2 for 3 on chucks at a bit over 600 yards with it (missed, corrected, took two in a row). Earlier that same day I nailed 3 in a row (doped conditions right) at 415 yards. I'd say it's still shooting pretty good at the 1500 round mark, and I'll be quite surprised if I don't get most of another thousand rounds out of it before it is toast. Actually, I've been around a whole bunch of slower twist .22-250AI's and have never heard of one not lasting at least 2000 rounds?
My 8 twist .22-250AI (Lilja 3 groove), lasted only 700 rounds by comparison... I'm not one to care much about barrel life, so I'm not complaining about that. But what was a complaint for me, was how the last couple hundred rounds it would not put together a decently long string without bullets going poof etc. For some guys, in some applications, that would not be any big deal. But for me, when I'm out in the field blasting chucks or p-dogs, being forced to stop and clean a rifle and let it cool down every 15 to 20 rounds is a ROYAL pain in the arse. Have to say though, that when that thing was new, cold clean and humming, it was like magic how it cut the wind. My current thinking on that though, is if I want to cut the wind, I'm going to use something less finicky - something like a .260 or other chambering that can get me the high BC without the high hassle factor of a large capacity fast twist .224.
Ducksoup - just my opinion, but I think you've put together an excellent combination for the purposes you describe.
- DAA
My 8 twist .22-250AI (Lilja 3 groove), lasted only 700 rounds by comparison... I'm not one to care much about barrel life, so I'm not complaining about that. But what was a complaint for me, was how the last couple hundred rounds it would not put together a decently long string without bullets going poof etc. For some guys, in some applications, that would not be any big deal. But for me, when I'm out in the field blasting chucks or p-dogs, being forced to stop and clean a rifle and let it cool down every 15 to 20 rounds is a ROYAL pain in the arse. Have to say though, that when that thing was new, cold clean and humming, it was like magic how it cut the wind. My current thinking on that though, is if I want to cut the wind, I'm going to use something less finicky - something like a .260 or other chambering that can get me the high BC without the high hassle factor of a large capacity fast twist .224.
Ducksoup - just my opinion, but I think you've put together an excellent combination for the purposes you describe.
- DAA
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
DAA,
You are getting more barrel life than me because you are willing to put up with more than me. When I get the first blowup, I replace the barrel. I don't try to get any more life out of it by cleaning more often etc. If I have a barrel that takes more than 5 fouling shots to be shooting it's best I replace it.
The facts that I do all my own barrel fitting and keep spare barrels in stock makes me not hesitate to change them at the first sign of trouble. Once I was shooting a 243 in the morning, had a bullet blowup, came home, fitted a new barrel and went back out shooting after lunch. I could have been shooting before noon but though I may as well eat lunch while I was home.
Jack
You are getting more barrel life than me because you are willing to put up with more than me. When I get the first blowup, I replace the barrel. I don't try to get any more life out of it by cleaning more often etc. If I have a barrel that takes more than 5 fouling shots to be shooting it's best I replace it.
The facts that I do all my own barrel fitting and keep spare barrels in stock makes me not hesitate to change them at the first sign of trouble. Once I was shooting a 243 in the morning, had a bullet blowup, came home, fitted a new barrel and went back out shooting after lunch. I could have been shooting before noon but though I may as well eat lunch while I was home.
Jack