took out the lamb killer

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will if cmiddleton was telling you all the truth that would be one thing fact is the lady running sheep on this ranch has never heard of him nor called him for help he is trying to feed you all a line he says he killed old dog coyote in seven buttes wrong i killed threeold coyotes took another litter of pups this morning including the old dog another if he knew were all these coyotes were why arnt they dead allready??? he says he killed 158 in one year mabay but i dought it seeing as he cant tell the truth about anything else if you want to know my best year over 1100 coyotes no missprint eleven hundred cmiddleton dosent understand any thing about predator control work nor does he know what it is like to have 50 plus ranches to take care of he seem to think a guy doesnt have anything to do but babysit this 1 tiny ranch i dont have time to sit at the computer and type to a forum every day like he seems to its easy for people sitting on the side to be arm chair experts but they aint out of bed 3 every morning are they nor working 7 days a week. fish
 
Wow, I would like to say thanks for all the info. that has come out of this post. Just the other day I posted how much I love this place and how much I have learned from reading what you fellows are willing to share. I can see I have a long way to go but that is the fun in doing it. I just hope after I get there I don't have the same outlook as some of those I've read here. Keep it going though I'm trying to keep up. I think some of us need to check the size of our Big Boy Britches though. I read that on here also.
Billy
 
i wrote the last letter before i read every thing that has been posted look if you want to go kill coyotes go !!!!! i could care less i get huffy when people start spreading B.S.and run around trying me how to do my job. i could explain things tell im blue in the face and until you have lived it seen it you wont under stand it if you have some exact questions ill try my best to anser i dont come here oftenso give it time as for middleton i dont know if he killed anything or not frankly i dont care i do know he has never talked talked to the gal who owns and herds the sheep i do know i killed 3 coyotes on the den in seven buttes old dog old wet female and baby sitter it was very obivous they had been screwed with (called)before as for chest beating the suposed coyote middleton killed he doesnt know weather it was a sheep killer or not so dont make issues over something you dont know and dont try to tell me how to run this program one thing im sure of is he couldnt do it ive been hunting coyotes full time over 20 years 12 in natrona countyhave over15000 life time coyotes not a brag just a ststement of fact i know men who have more.
 

You don't know me and I don't know you. The point is you should of confronted this man, face to face, and let him know he is messing with your livelihood. If you are as aggresive with the coyotes as you are with people, it does not surprise me that you that you have killed 15000 coyotes. You had to spill it all out in front of the whole PM Forum and now all us Hobby Hunters are picking sides, getting mad, drawing lines in the sand, spouting off stuff we (like you said) don't know about. Two guys on here that I don't really know but have talked to some on the forum, that I do know are good friends, have even jawed at each other a little. That is not good. I have no ill feelings for you or any of the pros. Just act like pros so I being 66 yrs. old can have someone that is doing what I love doing to kind of look up to. If you don't understand that then we don't need to be talking anyway. I do respect what you have learned and what you do.Good Huntin
Billy
 
fish you still are trying to make me out wrong i did talk the the herder girl she did tell me where that coyote came from and i did kill it as for your doughting me i could care less.dean called me and told me to talk to her and i did. i killed every coyote i have posted and posted what i was told by the rancher you are the one who is in the wrong now i did shoot one coyote out of a triple read my other posts it will tell you where to find the dead dog with a bullit hole in its teeth.you can take it to the bank
i have not said one thing that should have offended you so far but now i will.
even though you are great at your job i'm a damb good caller and if you think i or anyone with a coyote call can't call in and kill coyotes in such a target rich inviormint as ormsby your nuts.
if you were not working that section of the ranch i would have went back in and cleaned up but i do not wont to mess you up.
you can get off my butt or i'll start no longer careing i have called around the same areas as you for years and years and i always avoided what you were doing.
do you remember seeing a deer antler at the door of the herders camper? she gave it to me when i was there. how would have that happened if she never met me
how would have i known she was a she if all i'm writing is b.s.
you need to get some facts straight be for you post.
i'll say again i went calling for one reason i was asked to
i do not call spring time coyotes any more unless by request.
are you still working things out there? keep it up you have your work cut out for you.was the den you took out this time on the west end of the seven buttes?
the east side i have taken a male and a female out of and never saw any others.took the male in feb or march and the female was taken when i said it was.i have seen the female several more times after taking the male and she was always alone. i have not called sence the end of march so after that she may have picked up another coyote.no other showed itsself when we shot her.i know of other dens close to the seven buttes the west side den is where the new seven buttes road meets the first east west road. the rock pile on the west side the road in the blm section has a den most yers but i haven't been there to see this year.straight accross the road look down the hill to the east there is a lone sand dune a pair was working that all winter and useually dens down the creek where the little rocky hill is on the dry creek.the dead coyote by the gate i was told by jay was taken from the air.
look back on the other posts and you will see more spots that hold denning areas. i know these areas not due to calling dened up dogs but buy keeping track of them in march.once the coyote started setting up the den sights i stopped calling. i stop then not because i'm tired of calling but due to your efforts in the summer.
when i lived in sundance we called all year long and i learned that as far as # go its the best time to go.
i do it because i love it would you stop fishing when the bite is on that is more or less what i do with coyotes.
i'm not going to fight with you but i'm not going to have you keep calling me a lier either you need to accept the fact that other folks kill coyotes too.
i can work with you or not i leave coyote alone for the mostin the summertime part due to your work. i was called to go out there and never knew you were there tell after i got there.
keep going after me and posting things that are flat wrong and maybe i'll get mad you don't want that and i don't either.
i know you have a hard job and mine is not easy either.
i put in all the traffic signals down wyoming bullavard last year and went to work at 7am worked tell 5:30 then went back at 9pm and worked tell 5:30 am all summer long 7 days a week. you don't have a tough job come to work with me and see how nice your job is.4' diamater footings 40' deep in soil the same consistency as a chocolet shake thats what the structures at 2nd and wyoming blv. are standing on the north structure is 30,000 lb.s
i don't cry on here how tough it is to work i just blame it on eve. she is the one that made us all have to work.
the general contractor on that job broke every thing we installed and every utility on wyoming bulavard and i had to fix them i had 70 days repairing what they tore up i just did it i didn't sit around and cry about it. then they didn't pay for what they broke a loss to me of 600,000 dollers ya i'm [beeep] about it but this is the first anyone here heard of it.just chalked it up to a donation to the town i live in.i don't get mad i get even the next job on the interstate i sold all our material to reiman corp to get them to have over 50% of the job making them the general contractor enstead of IHC. do a job some time thats 1.9 million bucks bid price and have some one else break 600,000 of it then you can complain to me the lamb loss on any ranch is tiny compaired to the gambles we take every job.
i'm not here to make your job hard. i can tell the 7 buttes coyotes have been messed with too there is a guy that lives out at antalope hills that skrews with them all the time. i just find a way to call them that he hasn't tryed yet and do well at it.
i could not get them to come to distress sounds so i went to challange howls and did ok.
i called one set by my self and one set with my son sence march.
i could do as dean asks and still be going every weekend but i'm not due to your work.
take it or not.
i have called alot and avoided any confontations with you but i love calling coyotes and i could take up summer time calling if you keep calling me a lier. make a enimie of me i why would i care about you anymore
come on work with me not agenst me i have not worked agenst you.
this whole post started just about shooting him in the teeth and boy did it turn into alot more than that.
if i got to use airplanes helicopter traps and poisen maybe my #'s would be a lot too.
mine are 100% called no den or decoy dogs either.
i'm not going to say anything agenst you or what you do anymore. don't you go after me.
give construtive information that is what this site is for
so far aside from what you have killed everything else you have posted is false.
i feel like we are writing a book here
 
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Wow!!!

It's been very interesting reading fish's responses. One thing I've noticed about SOME of the PROs over the years is that while they may be very good at killing coyotes, many of them have kinda poor people skills. I realize they work hard "seven days a week" and "out of bed at 3am" but I'm thinking maybe they should come to town once and a while and hang out with people instead of all those coyotes and sheep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Another thing I think people are missing is that the idea of being a pro really means nothing. While some "pros" are very good at what they do, others are not. That goes in any field. All "Pro" means is that they get paid to do something. Just because someone does something for a living doesn't mean they are good at it. Look at any field for examples. I'm sure many of you know doctors that you wouldn't take your dog to!

I know I wouldn't worry in the slightest about my recreational calling getting in the way of a "Pro's" work. If my calling makes a particular coyote harder for him to kill, then it should be an easy thing for him to change tactics and get the offender. I know that if I wanted to I could go into an area that gets called daily and manage to kill a pile of coyotes over the next week. Traps will do the trick.

I'm not trying to pound on anyone with my post. I think a bit more respect would go a long ways with posts like these though. Respect for each other and respect for how the other one chooses to do what he does.
 
i run 18 mil in contracts a year i don't think your program would be that tuff your working with others money if i lose it i lose my house and everything i own.
your program is small peanuts.
i have over 50 empoloyee's plus that many seasonal employee's if your program had that there would be no coyotes in natrona county.
i'm not a amiture in anything i do.
except spelling /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Wow!!!

It's been very interesting reading . One thing I've noticed about SOME of the PROs over the years is that while they may be very good at killing coyotes, many of them have kinda poor people skills. I realize they work hard "seven days a week" and "out of bed at 3am" but I'm thinking maybe they should come to town once and a while and hang out with people instead of all those coyotes and sheep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Another thing I think people are missing is that the idea of being a pro really means nothing. While some "pros" are very good at what they do, others are not. That goes in any field. All "Pro" means is that they get paid to do something. Just because someone does something for a living doesn't mean they are good at it. Look at any field for examples. I'm sure many of you know doctors that you wouldn't take your dog to!

I know I wouldn't worry in the slightest about my recreational calling getting in the way of a "Pro's" work. If my calling makes a particular coyote harder for him to kill, then it should be an easy thing for him to change tactics and get the offender. I know that if I wanted to I could go into an area that gets called daily and manage to kill a pile of coyotes over the next week. Traps will do the trick.

I'm not trying to pound on anyone with my post. I think a bit more respect would go a long ways with posts like these though. Respect for each other and respect for how the other one chooses to do what he does.



right on !!!
 
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nasa is coming over today can't wait to meet him.
nothing is ever bad if you can meet a new hunting buddy on the way.
 
Quote:
Wow!!!

It's been very interesting reading fish's responses. One thing I've noticed about SOME of the PROs over the years is that while they may be very good at killing coyotes, many of them have kinda poor people skills. I realize they work hard "seven days a week" and "out of bed at 3am" but I'm thinking maybe they should come to town once and a while and hang out with people instead of all those coyotes and sheep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Another thing I think people are missing is that the idea of being a pro really means nothing. While some "pros" are very good at what they do, others are not. That goes in any field. All "Pro" means is that they get paid to do something. Just because someone does something for a living doesn't mean they are good at it. Look at any field for examples. I'm sure many of you know doctors that you wouldn't take your dog to!

I know I wouldn't worry in the slightest about my recreational calling getting in the way of a "Pro's" work. If my calling makes a particular coyote harder for him to kill, then it should be an easy thing for him to change tactics and get the offender. I know that if I wanted to I could go into an area that gets called daily and manage to kill a pile of coyotes over the next week. Traps will do the trick.

I'm not trying to pound on anyone with my post. I think a bit more respect would go a long ways with posts like these though. Respect for each other and respect for how the other one chooses to do what he does.




Amen!!!!! Preach on Brother buker
I wish I had a helicopter and plane so my numbers would be higher too!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Hello Mr. fish, Do you have a guestimate of the numbers you have taken by calling? These would be the numbers that I can wrap my brain around. Very few recreational callers ever approach 100 coyotes in a year. It would take more than 150 years to equal your numbers. Frank Martin took 2714 coyotes in one year in Texas with getters. The amount of work it took to pull that off is staggering. At what point does it stop being fun for a pro.
I've hunted with Cal, he's a good man. A pro. Yet he still calls contests and calls for fun. Postman's holiday. Do you ever call just for recreation, or is it just more work?
Do you use howls to call to the stand?
What howler do you use or do you use only voice howls?
 
Just in case any of you Pros who have to deal with pressured coyotes missed this, let me paint a bullseye on it for you.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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I know I wouldn't worry in the slightest about my recreational calling getting in the way of a "Pro's" work. If my calling makes a particular coyote harder for him to kill, then it should be an easy thing for him to change tactics and get the offender. I know that if I wanted to I could go into an area that gets called daily and manage to kill a pile of coyotes over the next week. Traps will do the trick.

 
Holy SHEET, this is entertaining!!! Every now and then one of these threads come up where everyone involved has their ego at stake.
Doesnt really mean that much guys.
This is one of those threads that you think about at work and come home to see what new BS has been thrown on the heap and see who got pi$$ed off at who...
Keep it coming guys!! Ron
 
thats just what i have been doing ronald i can't help but keep checking back on this thread bee a lively one
 
Quote:
Just in case any of you Pros who have to deal with pressured coyotes missed this, let me paint a bullseye on it for you.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Quote:
I know I wouldn't worry in the slightest about my recreational calling getting in the way of a "Pro's" work. If my calling makes a particular coyote harder for him to kill, then it should be an easy thing for him to change tactics and get the offender. I know that if I wanted to I could go into an area that gets called daily and manage to kill a pile of coyotes over the next week. Traps will do the trick.





Come on Rich in Az, I'm sure those guys know about traps... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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Traps will do the trick.



Yeah they will, and how! I helped my brother-in-law run traps one winter in CO back when pelts were $35-50 per. Good money and very effective, but it's a LOT more work than calling/shooting and not nearly as much fun.
 
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Come on Rich in Az, I'm sure those guys know about traps...





Sure they do Randy.
They also have the experience to know about pressured coyotes.
USDA/APHIS/WS
Predator Project
National Wildlife Research Centers are located in Ca. (UC Brekley), Utah (USU) and Colorado and have conducted studies on territorial coyotes on their facilities since at least 1992 Dr. Jaeger told me that some of the alpha males are entirely "different" animals and their pro trappers on staff are unable to trap them. He said it just can't be done. Because they are unable to trap the alphas on the 600,000 acre INL site they use helicopters to shoot cannon nets over them. He said some of the males have learned to avoid that capture as well. At the Logan facility they have a 15 acre compound that they use for different studies with different coyotes and when it is time to remove and replace the coyotes the trappers still set their traps every afternoon and the coyotes still flip them over and defecate on them every night. Every known set, every known lure.
When I called at the Idaho facility last June I was shocked at the lengths the coyotes would go to to get to the downwind without exposing themselves. Dr Jaeger sent me a CD of the computer animation of the GPS movements in response to my calling. What an eye opener. As the Dr. says some coyotes just can't be called and some just can't be trapped. And that is why the guys whose jobs depend on results would just as soon not to have to deal with a pressured or educated coyote. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Rich AZ,
U make some great points and I appreciate the knowledge U have. From the way I read this the dr tracked them coming to your call??? My response is U didn’t shooters downwind in the right place. I know U don’t shoot them and neither do I but the opportunity is there. If they are flipping the traps, they are using that route, blind trap them or snare them, don’t make it obvious. The main point I am trying to make here is, any coyote can killed! Why?? Humans are way smarter than coyotes!
 
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