.223 AI in an AR-15?

T

TOM64

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Or would I be better off with a 223 wssm built by dtech?

Wanting 22-250 velocity, or close to it, in an AR-15.


My partner is thinking of something different, 17 rem, 204 ruger (probably not), 223AI or 223wssm. If anybody has one of these, how do you like it and would you do it again?
 
I have an AR 9 twist 223AI, and it's a great shooter, good to about 500 +/- on nice days using the 69 Nosler Comp., but i'm not one to believe that the AI 223 offers that much more than the factory version-- at least not in this particular rig. I'm getting very little more than the parent case out of it. I've heard a lot of good things regarding the WSSM's in the AR, and if u're trying to reach out there some i'd go for it. D-Tech here is supposed to be a great outfit to go with. A search oughtta bring up plenty of info.
 
Just step into the 243WSSM or 25WSSM, leave the 223WSSM alone. You will get plenty of velocity out of the 243/25 to put a big grin on your face for coyotes or chucks. My 20" Oly Arms 243WSSM is a real blast to shoot. Weight will be the nearly the same in all guns with equal barrel length. My upper cycles perfectly with never a problem. Don't ask about loads yet, I still have not had time to get serious about the perfect load.
 
What we liked about the 223AI was the magazine should work without any mods. Then I noticed that a "strong" bolt action should be used to handle 65000 pressure so that brought back memories of my AR-10 shooting 2650-2700fps, anything more would pull the rim off the case due to timing issues.

The 223 wssm probably makes more sense in a fast twist barrel but I will have to look at the 243 wssm. Why may I ask do you suggest I skip the 223 and go to the 243? This is going to be used, or at least designed for a long range gun and the high B.C. bullets available in the .223 look promising. I'll check out the 243 wssm and see what I come up with. Thanks to both of you for your input, anything else you can think of will be greatly appreciated.
 
Definetly look at Dtech's uppers. Mike can make you one in 223wssm or 243wssm whichever you choose, and they fit on an unmodified AR-15 lower receiver, so if you ever decide that you want a 223, no problem just by a 223 upper and slap it on. I got mine a couple weeks ago and so far it's great!!!

Good Luck,
AZHUNTER
 
I can't address the mag feed and bolt cycle issues, I dont have an AR, but the 6mm (.243) will give you much better long range capabilities. Bench-resters shoot it a lot, out to 1000YDS, so the bullet selection, custom and production, is hard to beat.
 
I have been looking to buy a .243 bolt action rifle and just recently decided to see if i can get another upper for my rock River Arms. Good info azhunter! How can I find Dtech? Did not find then when I googled. thanks
 
My old 6AI bolt gun would get to 800 yds. < MOA on the nice days, and that was with the 87 gr. Horn. BTHP. I would think with the 87 V-Max u could get somewhat closer to 1000 with decent ballistics out of an AR. I actually hit a dog at +/- 700 yds. with my 223 AI, and the 75 A-Max. I heard him yelp, and he took off running. Certainly never should've taken the shot, and learned a hard lesson (that i actually already knew before i took the shot). 223-based capacity cases lose their terminal effect at about 500 yds. on coyotes for my rig.

My handgun shooting partner just took a pr. dog at 1590 yds. in
 
Just took a look at the WSSM case with the 75 A-Max, and it looks like u could modify the DPMS mag. to get it to work with the WSSM case, and it would allow the 75 to be seated at the N/S junction. That may be the way to go, for 700-800 +/- under ideal conditions.

Now another idea would be to try and get ahold of some 65 gr. JLK LD's if u can find them. They have a BC of .395 rated for 10 twist, and as fast as u could push them out of say a 26" barrel, u just might be able to beat the A-Max, but then again the biggest issue with shooting coyotes at long-range is terminal ballistics to put him down quickly with minimal searching for them, so...??
 
Tom, I tried a 223WSSM in a bolt action last year. I wasn't able to get much better than MOA and the barrel heated up very fast. 2 or 3 shots in a 5 minute period and it was significantly hotter than the cold bore shot. I didn't get into working up a perfect round because I really wasn't happy with how hot the barrel got and I was cleaning a lot of copper out of the barrel.

I'm thinking a 260AI barrel in my AR-10. I've got an AR barrel on order from John Noveske that I need to finish the project on then I'll start saving for the 260 barrel from either Mike Milli or Noveske. The more I read about this round the more I think it's nearly the perfect round.
 
Boy, things get complicated once you throw a few facts into the mix! After passing along the info here my partner decided his basic .223 remington is not so bad after all, he just knows his 22-250 so well he'd like to get it out of an AR-15.

HD, I read an article a few years ago about the 260AI and it sounded pretty slick. Let me know how the AR-10 goes and if the barrels you're getting have the gas port farther forward of the normal location? My 308 AR-10 was so aggrivating, factory loads worked fine but hotter book loads would pull the rim, I cursed the AR-10 platform and went to a bolt gun if bigger than .223remington, gas guns and high pressure didn't mix for me.

Thanks to everyone for your input, you saved us a lot of headache I think.
 
In any gas operated self loader you have to use a powder that has a pressure curve which matches where the takeoff port is in the barrel. Too fast a powder will not have enough pressure at the port to reliably work the action. Too slow a powder will have too much pressure and bend action rods or rip off rims.

You do not have to "reinvent the wheel" here, the proper powders for all self loaders are common knowledge among those who have been shooting them.

Just ask!!

Jack
 
Jack any info as to why I had problems would be wonderful, I had an Armalite AR-10 carbine and while surplus ammo of 147 gr ball would run 2600 fps or so I tried Federal premium 150 gr which ran 2691 fps. On a cooler day it worked fine but a warm day the Federal would bend the rim. As for my reloads I used WW748 and Varget powder, anything above 2700 fps would have the same results. I did ask around on ARFcom and everyone seemed to show pressure signs over 2700 fps with carbines or rifles. I know very little about burn rates and would appreciate any ideas on what would have worked better.
 
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