Ball powder requires magnum primers?

270yotekiller

270yotekiller

New member
I am going to be reloading a 22-250 and 270 winchester using Winchester 760 powder and i have read in a couple of manuals to use magnunm primers for this ball-type powder.

Would this be considered safe (magnum primers) in a 22-250? Also is ball powder affected by temperature as much as people lead me to beleive? what are the known effects?

Thanks

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
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The magnum primers will not be a problem in the .22-250. I never followed the suggestion of using magnum primers with ball powder until I had serious hang-fire problems in cold weather. I changed over to magnum primers and worked up a load and never had a problem again.
 
Magnum and Standard primers both work well with the 22-250 and Win 760. The is a three shot group from 22-250 Ack with Win 760 and the Federal 210 Standard primer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
group22-250Ack.jpg
 
I've shot thousands of rounds using several kinds of ball powder. Never have used magnum primer. Use GM205's and Remington 7.5's never have had a problem.
 
The Speer reloading handbook recommends magnum primers for a number of different loads all through the book. Seemingly, ball powders in large cases might require them taking into consideration the greater amount of powder used.
What I have found is to check the bore and see if there's residue after 3 or 4 shots. There doen't need to be a lot but it's an indication of incomplete powder burn. Of course lots of other vairables enter into the equation. If using a magnum primer solves the problem then you are home free. Reducing the load and working up is a safe method.
Frankie B.
 
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I've shot thousands of rounds using several kinds of ball powder. Never have used magnum primer. Use GM205's and Remington 7.5's never have had a problem.




I never did when I was shooting in a climate like yours either. The first time I had it happen it was somewhere around -20 F. I shot several times and in each case there was a hang-fire of about 1 second or perhaps just a little less. Plenty of time to ruin the shot.
 
Amen Dtech.

All my hunting loads are put together with Mag. primers, even stick powders. I'm originally from northern Minn. and have since moved to WA. I love it out here perpetual spring.

AWS
 
270,

I see you are from Canada.

Mag primers would make sense, at least in the winter.

I used WW760 in a .22-250 for several years. Always used the standard Rem primer, never had trouble with it.

It grouped .420" (5 shot, 100 yds).

When WW went to the plastic jug, my accurate combo never resurfaced.

I bought the last old metal can of the stuff I could find and some SOB stole it!

Still crying over that one.

Use Varget now.

Three 44s
 
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I am going to be reloading ....Winchester 760 powder

......magnunm primers



I’ve tried to stay away from this thread because I didn’t want to taint it with my extreme prejudice against ball powders. I can’t restrain myself anymore;

I’m convinced; nothing will burn out a barrel faster than ball powders. My theory is that unburnt powder leaving the chamber right behind the bullet as it engages the rifling and shortly thereafter has a sandblasting effect on the lands of a barrel. If you shoot revolvers, you’ll see ball powders like H-110 and 296 will cut significantly faster than flakes or extruded powders.

I’ve been through a lot of barrels prematurely. Most were small cartridges one wouldn’t think of as being burners. Because ball powders make reloading easy, I’ve used lots of them. It meters like water - on the money every time, even with a cheap powder measure. Accuracy is superb, SD’s – almost non-existent. My powder shelf is still stuffed with many of them.

I’ve said good-bye to too many good rifles. Now, I’m a little [beeep] about it.

My recommendation; learn to live with the crunch of stick powders and shoot till you’re sore, don’t look back. If you just have to have that edge, weigh a couple to amaze your friends. A quarter inch here or there in reasonable hunting scenarios ain’t really as big a problem as figuring out how to pull off the shot.

Basic reloading info:

Don’t use mag primers. If the stuff doesn’t go off it might be for other reasons.

Forget you ever heard of 760 and try H-414 and H-450 (if you can find any), especially with long barrels. If you’re launching the heaviest bullets you can find in 26" and longer barrels, look for the Hodgdon 870 and 1000 surplus machine gun powders.

I have another theory about slow burning ball powders; because they take longer to ignite, they burn out more of a barrel, faster.

I hope you had a Merry Christmas yourself.
 
We stopped using Ball powders in all but one specific load (50 BMG) some years ago. The main reason...temperature sensitivity. Our bonding company required us to "prove" our ammunition was safe at "any" shooting condition. With the use of most ball powders, we were having problems with pressure at both high and low temperature; with any primer. Get a better powder measure and change to a stick.
 
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I’m convinced; nothing will burn out a barrel faster than ball powders. My theory is that unburnt powder leaving the chamber right behind the bullet as it engages the rifling and shortly thereafter has a sandblasting effect on the lands of a barrel.



Where in the world would you expect to find a case/powder combination in a center-fire rifle that the powder all burned in the case? Why do you think you need a certain barrel length to get velocity. It's because the powder burns as the bullet is progressing down the bore. I may be missing something in your post but you are going to have unburned powder leaving the chamber, whether it's ball or extruted.
 
I think what billgow is talking about is the idea that that ball powders cause more erosion in the area just ahead of the chamber. I would have to say that there is some emperical evidence to support what he is saying. A computational chemist friend of mine seems to think it has to do with the higher combustion temperatures of ball powders.
 
Well that's odd as that is opposite of what I have found over the years shooting both ball and extruded powder. In fact, I know of a couple of guys that both have custom rifles built by my father. Both guns were in the same chambering, both were Douglas 1:10 twist 4140 barrels. They shot similar velocities with similar grain-weight bullets. One was using H-450 the other using IMR-7828. The guy using the H-450 got far longer barrel life that the guy using the IMR-7828. Now I realize that these are not studies made by a computational chemist, but the results are difficult to dispute.
 
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never did when I was shooting in a climate like yours either. The first time I had it happen it was somewhere around -20 F.



I don't just hunt in Western Washingtion. I hunt Eastern Washington, Idaho, and Montana. Some pretty cold weather at times. I'm not sure about -20 but below zero things still seem to be working.
 
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never did when I was shooting in a climate like yours either. The first time I had it happen it was somewhere around -20 F.



I don't just hunt in Western Washingtion. I hunt Eastern Washington, Idaho, and Montana. Some pretty cold weather at times. I'm not sure about -20 but below zero things still seem to be working.



It was quite a surprise to me. I had hunted many years and never had anything like that happen before. I am inclined to use as cool of primer as I can so I am not one that jumps on the "magnum" band-wagon, but onece you miss a few shots because of bad hang-fires, you have to do something.
 
Found some interesting data in the archives:
Firearm: .300 Win. Mag. rail/pressure gun, 28" Kreiger
load: 83.2 grains H-870. Fed. 215 primer. Fed Match new brass. Sierra 200 gr. MK max length.
Temperature Velocity Pressure
72 F 2975fps 53250 psi
32 F 2855fps 51500 psi
-4 F 2990fps 57200 psi

I know that we never did test H-450 or WW-760 but we do have data for the 500 series of VV powders as well as lots of non canister powders and I think we did H-380.
 
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Where in the world would you expect to find a case/powder combination in a center-fire rifle that the powder all burned in the case?



Hi Mike, I just re-read my post and didn't see anything to suggest that I was under any impression that all the powder was burnt in the cartridge case. My contention is simply that ball powders are more abrasive than stick or flake. It’s because so much of the powder is burnt in the lands and the first part of the barrel that I make my case.
 
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