hunting with a 4-wheeler?

This is not about sympathy; but about understanding issues that affect our brother hunters. There is a place for all of us on public land,you have no more rights or say as to what occurs on the public land than anyone else. I do not hunt public land mainly because of people like you two. I just felt your posts were over the top, You guys sound like the people who say there is no place for law abiding civilians to own AR-15's, semi auto handguns and high powered rifles. I do agree that I would be mad too if someone blew my hunt by driving up on my stand be it a ATV, truck or horse, but in my case you would be on private land and I could take care of the situation and you would suffer the consequences. If you do not want to deal with the guys who need to use ATV's to hunt on public land, then dig in your pocket and fork out some money for a lease and then you can be the supreme dictator. It is obvious that none of us will be able to get through to you two and get you to understand where we are coming from. This is my last post on this subject.
 
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Elks

Maybe you do not hunt remote regions in extreme weather to make a comment like that.At this point I feel as if I am trying to reason with an anti which we all know can not be done. I am out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



Sorry but North Western CO and South western WY are abnout as remote as it can get. Again if you can't make it out with out a vehicle then do not go there. If you can't manage to survuve long enough for the rescures to find you take a survival class. Sorry but you will not change feeling on this any time soon. Had too many bad things come from atv riders.
 
For every activity a man or person can enjoy, there is always another person trying to take it away.

You ever play Jenga? http://www.hasbro.com/jenga/

You take a bunch of blocks and stack them together. remove one block at a time until it collaps. Lable the blocks "ATVs" "Snowmobiling" "Hunting" and on and on.

I think it behooves outdoorsmen to promote all outdoor activities and not pick and choose. If outdoorsmen are devided then it's just that much easier for PITA and other activists to take those blocks away. Oh an FYI ATV's do not do as much dmg to roadbeds as full size trucks do. I've never seen 3 foot deep ruts caused from an ATV.

I would suggest you become educated before spouting off ignorant comments based on your own observances. I'm sure some people on ATV's have torqued you off so now you hate all ATV's/ers.
 
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This is not about sympathy; but about understanding issues that affect our brother hunters. There is a place for all of us on public land,you have no more rights or say as to what occurs on the public land than anyone else. I do not hunt public land mainly because of people like you two. I just felt your posts were over the top, You guys sound like the people who say there is no place for law abiding civilians to own AR-15's, semi auto handguns and high powered rifles. I do agree that I would be mad too if someone blew my hunt by driving up on my stand be it a ATV, truck or horse, but in my case you would be on private land and I could take care of the situation and you would suffer the consequences. If you do not want to deal with the guys who need to use ATV's to hunt on public land, then dig in your pocket and fork out some money for a lease and then you can be the supreme dictator. It is obvious that none of us will be able to get through to you two and get you to understand where we are coming from. This is my last post on this subject.



Come out here and see all the crap that goes on with the ATVs and tell me you wouldn't feel the same way. Sorry, but even the land management and DOW feel that something hasto be done.
 
Again I do not hate all atvs, just do not think they should not be allowed around here for hunting. Sorry but I have seen 3 ft plus ruts caused by ATVs. I have also seen the Atvs, destroy entire roads by cutting corners.
 
Let me clarify something here as well. I have no problem with ATV use in a manner where a motor vehicle or motorcycle is used. Roads, trails, etc. That is not what I have been talking about. I'm talking about the flagrant disregard for not only the environment and animal habitat, but for others who use public lands as well.

I've said I completely disagree with their use in Wilderness areas. Period. By anybody for any reason. And it is highly illegal, for any reason. Yet it's amazing how many tracks I see in Wilderness areas.

I've said I disagree with their use on public lands on roadless (or trail-less) areas, except for use by disabled persons. It is damaging, and extremely selfish. Again, give me a good reason why a hunter who wants a secluded hunt, or a backpacker who wants a secluded camp, should hike miles into a roadless area, should have that hunt or camp disturbed by someone on a ATV, motorcycle, or any other motorized vehicle? Is it that hard to keep these things on a road or approved trail?

And again, more often than not, these are already areas where there are "road closed to improve animal habitat" posts already up, or areas with obvious attempts by FS and G&F to keep motorized vehicles OUT. I guess because an ATV doesn't have a license plate or windshield, it doesn't apply though, huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

The number of areas where we can go to get away from everything is decreasing by the day. It is nothing but self centered selfishness that could possibly allow someone to think it is okay to encroach on other people's hard earned seclusion simply because you can physically get an ATV there, and simply because you want to play on your toy, or because you've wolfed down a few thousand too many Big Macs over the years and cannot manage the walk yourself.

So, instead of flames, someone please give me a good legitimate reason, aside from the obvious disabled reasons, why it should be allowed to run across tracts of roadless public lands. Show me where the benefits out weigh the significant disadvantages of this behavior.

I honestly find it hard to believe that this is an argument on a hunting message board, where usually the majority of the people generally seem value all the outdoors has to give, which includes peace, quiet, solitude, and relatively undisturbed lands to explore and appreciate, and who are generally far more protective of those lands than the average guy.

So, let's argue points, and I'll discuss it. If you're looking for a flame fest, or are on a sympathy gathering mission, look elsewhere.

Again, someone asked for an opinion. Shouldn't get all bent out of shape when it's given. And it bears noting, the opinion was given in a non-insulting fashion. That certainly can't be said about the counter-replies which are full of insults, suppositions, and accusations. Seems as though the considerations given to others in the woods are getting carried over onto the message board as well by a certain crowd.
 
Good call Davr, you summed up my feelings to a tee. Again if people would use them on existing trails or roads there would not be an issue, but they do not.
 
I suppose it varies depending on your location. It's possible that there are too many people PERIOD in your location. Perhaps for some reason your hunting spot is very popular and draws a crowd.. Your situation might not apply to my situation and observances, but your desire to shut them down could be far reaching
 
Back to the original question..depends on your location. Like someone else sd. here in TX they are as common as a pick-up. Deer and predators get used to it. We use them on the ranch because of their versatility. The last yote I called in walked past the 4 wheeler I had parked beside the cedar tree and never gave it a look. He came in 5 minutes after I drove to the stand, so I guess it didn't spook him.
The cat didn't spook at it either. Deer have grazed right next to it. I truly believe a man walking thru the brush will spook more game than a 4 wheeler, assuming they are used regularly on the land. Motorcycles (loud off road bikes) would be more prone to spook yotes, but the best calling place I have ever hunted was an off road motorcycle park, so go figure. But, for the record, I was against 4 wheelers for years, now I like them and haven't seen my success rate drop because of their use. When I get an ADC job on a large tract of land (20K acres or so) they cannot be beat for scouting quickly. Some places don't give me much time and I need to cover ground rapidly. They also work great for nite hunting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I think this was the original question. "do you think an ATV will puch animals away" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

The question was not "Do you think ATV's and any discusion will push PM members over the edge" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



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I was wondering what your guys opinions where when it came to hunting with a 4 wheeler?
The reason I ask is because the public land that I hunt is on several thousand acres and some of it can be sometimes hard to get to without some sort of ATV.
Do you think an atv will push coyotes and fox too far away to have a good chance calling them back in?
Micah

 
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You do not need them. And they have no place on the public lands for hunting, hell they should only be allowed in designated areas for recreation use.



I think you better rethink your statement. A lot of people say the same things about AR-15's, "High powered" rifles, expanding bullets, semi-auto pistols, etc....



Sorry but I see a huge difference. The items you mentioned to not tear up and ruin the land. They do not effect animals. They do not cinsistantly ruin others hunts. The number one complaint by hunters in CO is too many hunters followed closely by too many ATVs. They will ruin your hunt everytime. I have spent many years saying oh thats just some hunters on ATVs. BS that is most hunters on ATVs. I would have it toware there should not be any on the public during hunting seasons.



The arguement and mentality is exactly the same...punish a lot for the actions of a few.

If you've got an issue with ILLEGAL ATV use, report the violators or petition your legislature to do something about. Don't biitch about it on an internet board!
 
Holly cow!!!! Just spent 25 minutes reading this post and it was better than an old Jerry Springer show. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Buster,

Believe me I have reported every instance I can. The problem is that there are too many people doing it. I turn in a handful every season. The results, the land management offices do not have enough man power to keep up with the complaints. Sorry but there is more than just a few doing it. Darn near every ATV I see is way off the roads on some cattle trail or in the bottom of a wash etc. They simply do not stay to the roads or marked trails. IT may be different where you are from, but I know how it is here. They go where ever they darn well feel like. Yes there has been petitions to the governing agencies on public for limiting the use of ATVs, and I have in one way or another worked with those petitions. The problem is this, there are 3 different agencies involved in the process, The National Forest Service, The BLM and The State Wildlife. Trying to get all 3 to accept regs is darn hard if not impossible. Most who work in the BLM wish that there were increased penalties and fines during hunting seasons as that is when an extimated 82% of ATV violations occur. They have put areas into protective withdrawls, signed and everything, and every year they have to go back and resign cause the ATVs just run them over. One area I hunt is a wilderness study area, no vehicles. This year, and ATV pulled out a post, and cut the cable so that they could get in the area. I really wish that it was just a handful of hunters that did this, but when I can garuntee to see atleast one violation of ATV law per weekend, it is not just a few.

OH and by the way, we are all gentlemen here and I am not well "Bit....." about it, I am simply stating my opinions and feelings on the matter, and they are strong cause it is an ever increasing problem.
 
Of the three primary big game hunting locations I frequent here in Colorado....all private...none...absolutely none allow ATVs of any kind for any reason. Some will make accomodations for disabled/restricted hunters but again not from an atv. Basically for the reasons - elks - has mentioned.
I don't need one and at this point don't want to use one.....that like all other things may change. On public lands here in CO they legally cannot be used any place my truck can't go...it has a heater and better seats.
 
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On public lands here in CO they legally cannot be used any place my truck can't go...it has a heater and better seats.



That is incorrect, there are atv trail systems on public lands thru-out the state, you can take your atv but not your truck. These trails are open to atv's, hiking, bike's, motorcycles, and horseback only. I ride these trails all year around, no vehicles over 48" wide. Those trail systems are on BLM public lands, and state parks.
 
What happens next is because of the grossly unethical and irresponsible use of these things, more laws will be created. The forest service is now going through a 4 or 5 year plan, which has been approved, to inventory and designate roads and trails for OHV use. Use in areas other than those designated is illegal, once fully implemented at the local level. But make no mistake, it's going to be a national policy, it's coming, and it's coming soon.

Instead of throwing their hands up and saying "well heck, there's no law, who are you to say I can't go tearing butt across this pristine meadow when I'm not breaking any laws" the group as a whole would have been much better off to observe some ethics and common courtesy.

It will ultimately take the OHV users policing themselves via clubs, peer pressure, etc. I don't expect that will be too widespread until the FS starts getting serious about this, and start closing down entire areas to any motorized travel. Things will change then, but by that time we'll of lost entirely too much in the way of forest access. Even use of existing trails which are not "inventoried" will be punishable. Had people stuck to these trails in the first place, it would have never been a problem. Now, even some of those will be off limits.

It's getting to the point that you'll need a Forest Service road and trail map to be able to go out and drive from point a to point b. Four wheel drive will be largely unecessary, because all the roads will be closed down at the first hint of rain or snow. It's happening in some areas already. All because a few couldn't control themselves.
 
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