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#3292548 - 01/27/22 07:31 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Rex Nutria]
204 AR Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 5879
Loc: Nebraska
Yeah that's a big difference, a quick look on strelok shows the 22-250 has roughly a 125 yd head start, at that point it's about the same as the shorty 223 is at the muzzle. I'm sure that's a big part of people's issues and how the comparison is tilted so far to the bigger cartridge.

Someone shooting a 24-26" 223 bolt gun loaded up to max would shorten the head start of the 22-250 by a fair amount.
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#3292556 - 01/27/22 08:40 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: 204 AR]
OKRattler Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3667
Loc: Ok Panhandle
Originally Posted By: 204 AR
I would like to try a 22-250 some time. But comparing velocity, it should only gain maybe 100 yds on a 223? I guess with equal barrel length. So my question is how is 223 weak at 120 yds, but 22-250 with the same bullet a killer at 350? FYI 243 is my current favorite but I don't kill near the numbers you guys do.


The .243 has more impressive ballistics. My brother shoots an 87 grain V-Max out of his or a 90 grain softpoint. Does really well putting coyotes down and not tearing up fur. One of my buddies shoots a 58 grain V-Max out of his. It's not so fur friendly but that don't go nowhere. I'd rather shoot a heavier bullet to buck the wind better myself. Both will kill a coyote stone dead.

I like my 22-250 just fine although I shoot my .223 more. If you compare ballistics between the two the 22-250 is basically doing at 400 yards what a .223 is at 300. Pretty close anyway.
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#3292564 - 01/27/22 09:56 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Rex Nutria]
Austin Laughlin Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/20
Posts: 127
Loc: Missouri
This may sound ridiculous to some people.. and I may get smoked for this comment lol..

The ďheavier bullet bucking the wind betterĒ I can see the theory. But Iím science, and Iím reality, I donít see that being the case.

A 32gr or 40gr bullet going 4000+ would ďbuck the windĒ better than a 60,70,80gr bullet. Less surface area, less drag. And speed, speed plays a huge roll for me. The faster it gets there, the less time itís in the air, which means the less time it has to be effected by the wind.

I dunno if that makes a lick of sense to anyone. But Iíve shot thousands of rounds, with people like my gunsmith, whoís broke multiple world records.. and he lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes LR and ELR shooting.

A bullet going 4000fps is going to get to the target faster than a bullet going 3500. Thatís a given. Which means itís in the air less time, and means it has less time for air to effect it.

My 204 shooting 10gr less bullet weight, doesnít drift NEAR as far, as my 223. Or even my 220 swift for that matter.
_________________________
Austin Laughlin - Laughlin Guide Service - Missouri

Speed Kills

Rem700 - 223AI
M77 - 220 Swift
Rem700 - 204 AI
CZ527 - 17 rem
Rem700 - 243AI

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#3292573 - 01/27/22 10:41 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Austin Laughlin]
B23 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 2600
Loc: Pacific NW
Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
This may sound ridiculous to some people.. and I may get smoked for this comment lol..

The ďheavier bullet bucking the wind betterĒ I can see the theory. But Iím science, and Iím reality, I donít see that being the case.

A 32gr or 40gr bullet going 4000+ would ďbuck the windĒ better than a 60,70,80gr bullet. Less surface area, less drag. And speed, speed plays a huge roll for me. The faster it gets there, the less time itís in the air, which means the less time it has to be effected by the wind.

I dunno if that makes a lick of sense to anyone. But Iíve shot thousands of rounds, with people like my gunsmith, whoís broke multiple world records.. and he lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes LR and ELR shooting.

A bullet going 4000fps is going to get to the target faster than a bullet going 3500. Thatís a given. Which means itís in the air less time, and means it has less time for air to effect it.

My 204 shooting 10gr less bullet weight, doesnít drift NEAR as far, as my 223. Or even my 220 swift for that matter.


Your theory really only applies in either extreme differences of bullet BC and or relatively shorter distances. When you start getting beyond around 400 yards it starts favoring the heavier higher BC bullets. On the windage side of things heavier starts winning within 100 yards.

Take a 40gr Berger in a 204 leaving at 4000fps and compare it to a 22cal 80 berger launching at 3500. Up to 300 yards the 4000 fps 40gr VS 3500 fps 80gr the TOF is already nearly identical and the 40gr only drops 1 inch less but in a 10mph crosswind the 40gr drifts double the distance of that 80 grainer and from 400 yards on out the 80gr walks away from the 4000fps 40.

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#3292577 - 01/27/22 11:12 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: B23]
Austin Laughlin Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/20
Posts: 127
Loc: Missouri
I guess I see what youíre saying, to an extent. But I do know for an absolute fact, without a doubt, that my 204 drifts less than my 223 AI, and my 220 Swift, at 400.

A buddy of mine, DAA knows him well, Jason Thee from NE. Used to hunt with my dad with the Coyote Gods. We used to go up there 2 or 3 times a year and shoot PD. My Swift, his 22-250, and my dads 223 AI, all drifted more at 400 than my 204 AI did. . And I have more people that seen it as well.

Shooting PDís at 300-450 yards, with a 5-10mph cross wind, my hold over was MUCH less than theirs. Thatís a 40gr Nosler in my 204 AI.

-55gr in the 22-250
-50gr in the 220 Swift
-53gr in the 223 AI

My 243 AI and the 6x47 I had, was still more hold over and both of those were/are 69gr.

Iím not at all telling you what you ďdonít knowĒ. And I hope it doesnít come off that way whatsoever. Because thatís not my intentions.

My 223 AI shooting a 40gr at 4000, drops much more than my 204 AI shooting the same bullet at almost identical speeds.

My 204 AI with the 40gr af 4000, without a doubt drifts less at 300-500 yards than my 223 AI, my swift, and my 243 AI.
_________________________
Austin Laughlin - Laughlin Guide Service - Missouri

Speed Kills

Rem700 - 223AI
M77 - 220 Swift
Rem700 - 204 AI
CZ527 - 17 rem
Rem700 - 243AI

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#3292582 - 01/28/22 01:03 AM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Rex Nutria]
Tim Neitzke Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 15981
Loc: Michigan
Hmmmm....

I guess I've been doing things wrong all this time.
Poor animals being killed with under powered bullets.

whistle
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#3292597 - 01/28/22 09:47 AM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Austin Laughlin]
204 AR Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 5879
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I guess I see what youíre saying, to an extent. But I do know for an absolute fact, without a doubt, that my 204 drifts less than my 223 AI, and my 220 Swift, at 400.

A buddy of mine, DAA knows him well, Jason Thee from NE. Used to hunt with my dad with the Coyote Gods. We used to go up there 2 or 3 times a year and shoot PD. My Swift, his 22-250, and my dads 223 AI, all drifted more at 400 than my 204 AI did. . And I have more people that seen it as well.

Shooting PDís at 300-450 yards, with a 5-10mph cross wind, my hold over was MUCH less than theirs. Thatís a 40gr Nosler in my 204 AI.

-55gr in the 22-250
-50gr in the 220 Swift
-53gr in the 223 AI

My 243 AI and the 6x47 I had, was still more hold over and both of those were/are 69gr.

Iím not at all telling you what you ďdonít knowĒ. And I hope it doesnít come off that way whatsoever. Because thatís not my intentions.

My 223 AI shooting a 40gr at 4000, drops much more than my 204 AI shooting the same bullet at almost identical speeds.

My 204 AI with the 40gr af 4000, without a doubt drifts less at 300-500 yards than my 223 AI, my swift, and my 243 AI.



Well, yeah, of course a 40 gr 204 will drift less than a 40 gr 224 started at the same speed. It's not magic, its speed + bc that determines drop and drift. That goes for any comparison, it's not a weight issue, it's speed combined with bc.
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#3292599 - 01/28/22 09:57 AM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: 204 AR]
Austin Laughlin Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/20
Posts: 127
Loc: Missouri
I understand that. I know itís kind of ďstating the obviousĒ. But the whole ďheavier bucks the wind betterĒ isnít the case.
_________________________
Austin Laughlin - Laughlin Guide Service - Missouri

Speed Kills

Rem700 - 223AI
M77 - 220 Swift
Rem700 - 204 AI
CZ527 - 17 rem
Rem700 - 243AI

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#3292603 - 01/28/22 10:15 AM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Austin Laughlin]
204 AR Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 5879
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I understand that. I know itís kind of ďstating the obviousĒ. But the whole ďheavier bucks the wind betterĒ isnít the case.


Form factor being the same, heavier for caliber buck the wind better. That's what most are meaning when they say that.

I shoot a fair amount of 204, and always used the 32's above 4k at pdogs. Without a doubt, the 40's at 3800 buck the wind better and catch the 32s in drop before 200 yds. That's the type of comparison most are making when they say heavier bucks the wind better.

I've also shot a lot of 243 over the years. 58's at 3800 have their place for sure, in fact I'm working on a rifle to do that right now. But for wind bucking, 87 vmax at 3100 clean the floor with them.
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#3292612 - 01/28/22 10:40 AM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Rex Nutria]
Austin Laughlin Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/20
Posts: 127
Loc: Missouri
I under what youíre saying. I do. But thatís still not what Iím getting at either.

A guy from around here shot a 1200yd completion, with a 7mm Mag. 130gr match bullet. Drifted less than a 150 and a 180gr.

My 300 Win mag, shooting 150gr Noslers, drifts far less at 700 then a 180gr AB or ELD.

My 243 AI shooting 69gr Noslers, drifts much less at 400-450 then a 100gr.

Same for my 200 Swift. Same for my 204.

Iím not talking about caliber differences persay. I just used those as examples because of the previous post.

Comparing one caliber to another, or comparing different bullet weights in the same caliber, either wayÖ Heavier bullet weight, bucking the wind better, isnít always the case. Like you said - Speed + B.C -



I can post a link thatís a really good read, if you want to get into crazy detail with it.
_________________________
Austin Laughlin - Laughlin Guide Service - Missouri

Speed Kills

Rem700 - 223AI
M77 - 220 Swift
Rem700 - 204 AI
CZ527 - 17 rem
Rem700 - 243AI

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#3292638 - 01/28/22 01:29 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Austin Laughlin]
Tim Neitzke Offline
Former Moderator

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 15981
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I under what youíre saying. I do. But thatís still not what Iím getting at either.

A guy from around here shot a 1200yd completion, with a 7mm Mag. 130gr match bullet. Drifted less than a 150 and a 180gr.

My 300 Win mag, shooting 150gr Noslers, drifts far less at 700 then a 180gr AB or ELD.

My 243 AI shooting 69gr Noslers, drifts much less at 400-450 then a 100gr.

Same for my 200 Swift. Same for my 204.

Iím not talking about caliber differences persay. I just used those as examples because of the previous post.

Comparing one caliber to another, or comparing different bullet weights in the same caliber, either wayÖ Heavier bullet weight, bucking the wind better, isnít always the case. Like you said - Speed + B.C -



I can post a link thatís a really good read, if you want to get into crazy detail with it.


So all the heavy for caliber high BC bullet shooting guys are wrong ?
Interesting...
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WE THE PEOPLE

Let's go Brandon !!

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#3292640 - 01/28/22 01:44 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Tim Neitzke]
Austin Laughlin Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/20
Posts: 127
Loc: Missouri
Your sarcasm is definitely unnecessary. I never once said anyone was wrong, or never claimed that I know more than anyone.

Try again hot shot.

I can slow it down for you if youíd like?


Edited by Austin Laughlin (01/28/22 01:46 PM)
_________________________
Austin Laughlin - Laughlin Guide Service - Missouri

Speed Kills

Rem700 - 223AI
M77 - 220 Swift
Rem700 - 204 AI
CZ527 - 17 rem
Rem700 - 243AI

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#3292641 - 01/28/22 01:45 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Rex Nutria]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15538
Loc: okla
Just curious.....whose your gunsmith that has broken all these world records?
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#3292643 - 01/28/22 01:46 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: pyscodog]
Austin Laughlin Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/08/20
Posts: 127
Loc: Missouri
Bobby Love out of Jefferson City MO

He shot a couple records with what is now the 224 Texas Trophy Hunter.

Also with a Deuce 35.


Edited by Austin Laughlin (01/28/22 02:00 PM)
_________________________
Austin Laughlin - Laughlin Guide Service - Missouri

Speed Kills

Rem700 - 223AI
M77 - 220 Swift
Rem700 - 204 AI
CZ527 - 17 rem
Rem700 - 243AI

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#3292647 - 01/28/22 02:00 PM Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? [Re: Austin Laughlin]
Coyotejunki Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/03/04
Posts: 5161
Loc: MO
Is Bobby still smithing?
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