Adventures in Zeroing the SY

W

WestTX 25/06

New member
My daughter wanted to go deer hunting the last weekend of youth season, so against my better judgment, I took my SY off and put a daytime scope on the rifle. Last night was calm wind wise, so I remounted my SY and went to confirm zero.

All shots were at 100 yards from my high rack chair. This isn’t a perfect bench rest setup, but the groups are good so I don’t think any of this is shooter or gun related. I circled and numbered each shot group after adjusting windage or elevation with notes on each adjustment (see photo).

My original zero, before taking the scope off, was dead center of the bottom of a hand warmer at the same distance with the same shooting method. My first two shots were high right quite a bit. I’ve known the mount doesn’t return to zero for me, so while annoying, this wasn’t a surprise.

I adjusted two clicks left on base mag for my next shot. It moved way left. At this point I decided to start shooting at least two shots each group to make sure my shooting wasn’t the problem. The picture and notes on the target tell the story pretty well.

Eye opening experience. Sometimes it moved way too much, sometimes it barely moved at all. Mixed bag and no clue what was going to happen next.

I really hesitated to post this, but with as much money as we all invest in thermal hunting, I feel like it would be a disservice to our little community to not raise a flag when I see one. Before I purchased this scope, I was told Bering put accuracy at a premium. It seems like if that was the case a simple tracking test before sending them out the door would be a good quality control measure they should implement.

I’ve now got a scope that:

A) doesn’t return to zero when remounted
B) doesn’t track correctly when I’m trying to re zero it

That’s not a good combo.

Can I kill coyotes with it? Yes, I’ve killed a lot. Does it have a great image? Yeah it’s pretty dang good. Does it shoot good groups? Yes, best I’ve seen so far out of my three thermals.. It’s just a pain in the rear to deal with if I ever have to take it off the rifle and for the money we are all spending on this stuff, that shouldn’t be an issue. I’ve decided to return it to Bering, test the heck out of whatever they send me back, and if it doesn’t work I’ll move on to something else next year.


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Join the club. Just be happy if it will hold zero. We have had 4 that won't.

Another guy I hunt with on occasion has a super hogster on 22 Nosler that I put together for him. He brought it over the other evening to diagnose a cycling issue which was cured with a different mag. We test fired it on the bench and it was high left a good 1.5" from his original zero. Imagine that. Customer service hasn't been a ball of fire either.
 
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Bering went to LaRue for a mount for the SY to get a high-quality mount to go with a high-quality thermal optic as many people wouldn't trust a no-name mount. There aren't many people who question the quality of LaRue products. When I have tested the new LaRue SY mount, it returned to zero perfectly, but it is too cold to do extensive testing where I live. My testing was done on a prototype but the mount didn't change.

When looking at the groups, most of the adjustments look about right. #2 was just one shot so if that was maybe slightly off, it could explain that one as group 3 seemed to be about where it should be back one click from #1. #5 is the odd one. #6 and #7 seemed to track pretty decent again. Please don't take offense to this but were you writing down the values after each one? If a long press on #5 happened, it could have jumped more than expected.
 
Originally Posted By: KirschBering went to LaRue for a mount for the SY to get a high-quality mount to go with a high-quality thermal optic as many people wouldn't trust a no-name mount. There aren't many people who question the quality of LaRue products. When I have tested the new LaRue SY mount, it returned to zero perfectly, but it is too cold to do extensive testing where I live. My testing was done on a prototype but the mount didn't change.
I tested RTZ with my Super Hogster & factory mount when it was new with a 10 shot group at 200, removing/replacing at every shot. 9 out of 10 under 2"...

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I was pretty satisfied with RTZ, but after missing a coyote, I found I was 3-4 inches high & a couple left.


So I rezeroed, then mounted the SH on a new upper, and switched/added the LaRue 101 QD riser. Last test was this 3 shot group dead center at 200(the 3 circled):

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Missed another coyote, and checking zero again, found it jumped 3" high.

I'll probably send my back when the snow melts.....
 
Korey - First off, I know the SY is working well for you and I’m happy that it is. I don’t doubt for a second that your mount works and most others probably work perfectly. I know LaRue has a great reputation and I have another one of their qd mounts on a daytime scope that works great. I can only speak to my own experience, and thus far I haven’t been able to make this one return to zero.

I agree some of the adjustments seemed to work as they should. #2 was only one shot, and it’s certainly possible I pulled it a little. I feel like it was a good shot same as the rest, but I don’t have any way to prove that. If we throw it out, I still think #4 and #5 are a problem. If #1 compared to #3 represents the distance it should move with one click at base mag, then why were the two clicks on #4 just barely lower. Then #5 not only moved extremely far down, but it didn’t move at all left.

No offense taken. I did not write down the values. Dark and cold don’t make that super easy and I didn’t think it necessary because I was paying close attention to the values on every click making sure they adjusted as they should.

At the end of the day I know what I did and that’s all that really matters to me. I didn’t set out perform a scientifically perfect experiment, I just went out to check zero on my scope. Nothing would have made me happier than to shoot once, everything be as it should, and go on about my night.
 
Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06No offense taken. I did not write down the values. Dark and cold don’t make that super easy and I didn’t think it necessary because I was paying close attention to the values on every click making sure they adjusted as they should. I only asked because I know it has happened to me numerous times, so now I have my phone with me and keep notes when I do it.
 
I appreciate you guys speaking on this subject for those of us that don’t own these YET ! I have been trying to keep up with all the changes in our predator industry. For many of us this might be a 1 time purchase, so we all want the best our money can buy.

I also follow Bering & Pulsar on Facebook. I have been seeing numerous issues on Bering scopes, so I’m happy to see some of them being discussed here too ! Many of us saw the issues Pulsar worked through in years past. There were numerous discussions on them here at that time.

Korey is extremely knowledgeable on thermals for sure as I see him sharing his knowledge with guys on Facebook too. Thanks Korey !!

I still want to see and hear the good, the bad about all of this equipment as that is how we can make our best decision as where to spend our savings ! So keep sharing guys !!
Thanks to all that post !
 
I understand this thread is referring to the Super Yoter, so I hope I'm not out of line posting this reply.

I finally got out to hunt with my Super Hogster a few times last week. Long story short, I had a rifle issue and it didn't fire at a broadside coyote at 60 yards. While figuring out that issue the next day, I thought it would be fun to shoot at some water bottles filled with hot water and watch it on video. Shot twice, nothing happened. Shot 2 more, nothing. Shot 2 at the other water bottle, nothing. Walked down to see what was going on, and to my surprise my shots were around 4" to the right (elevation was right where I'd expect it). Made adjustments until I was able to blow up the water bottles. I'm hoping this was a fluke. I haven't really heard of any POI issues with the SH. In the grand scheme of things, it's probably good that my rifle didn't fire. I think I would have missed or wounded that coyote.
 
Originally Posted By: ToroIs there people on other sites talking about the sy not holding zero? Toro,

I am a member and monitor discussions on all thermals on SnipersHide, Predator Masters, AR15.com, and I also am part of the Facebook group called Bering Optics Users Group with almost 5K active members. I have seen no posts that I can remember on AR15 or Snipershide with the SY and POI. I typed in POI and zero to see on the Bering Optics Facebook group, and of the thousands of posts I found around 4 and 3 were talking about the SY and one with the SH in the last 6+ months.

Night Goggles has sold a lot of Super Hogsters and Super Yoters. I am not aware of any Night Goggle's customer currently who is reporting having an issue or at least directly to me with POI. I am actually not aware of any NG sold SYs being serviced currently for any reason which is pretty amazing considering how many that have been sold.

For the people who are experiencing an issue, my comments do not mean, your unit is not. There is nothing worse when something isn't working having a whole bunch of people saying, "it works for me!". I am just answering Toro's question of what is being talked about on other sites.

For some of the comments I've seen comparing this to the Pulsar Trail POI scenario, yes shift is shift. For me, the examples shown on PM so far are in a different category of what I experienced with my Trail. For me, I was totally off my target (feet, not inches) at times not an inch or two but again this is from my experience.

When I have helped people troubleshoot POI potential issues, the majority of cases with the SY have been the result of the new LaRue mount being mounted too far back. I encountered this myself in early testing of the prototype. This applies to all Bering thermals, including the SH, but has been more problematic on the LaRue mount due to the lug post being the front of the mount. I found this mount was able to RTZ better because of this new design, but it is more susceptible to losing zero from being mounted too far back. For, the current threads on PM, this doesn't appear to be the case. For anyone who is having a problem, I highly recommend, you test the same gun, scope, ammo, and target with a glass scope the same way you tested your thermal. Just because it was fine earlier this year isn't the same as now. When you test the gun, and if it holds as you expect, contact your dealer and/or Bering Optics.

When some posts/comments arose on PM about the SY not holding zero, I contacted Bering right after Shot Show asking if there is a bigger issue. Bering is not seeing returns or RMAs on this issue. There is a known compatibility issue with some side-charge ARs where the bottom tension nut is in the way on the LaRue mount and is one reason I added a LaRue riser on my AR.

If you go to a page where thermal users and dealers gather, there will be comments on every brand of thermal where someone says their unit isn't holding POI. None of this is to say I don't believe the comments on here or anywhere else. I have been through this with a Trail, and it absolutely sucked. When I had proof it was moving, and I proved it was the scope and not my gun/ammo/target, etc, I turned my proof over to my dealer and to Pulsar.
 
I lost zero on my 223 upper utilizing the facory QR mount, and while it had full purchase on the picatinny rail, I decided to mount it on the LaRue 101 riser anyway.

I had tested the LaRue on another gun/scope combo to prove I could trust RTZ with it. I also proved that Burris PEPR mounts suck as far as RTZ, & down the road they went.

I sighted the SH in on the 223 again, then switched profiles, and sighted it on my new 6 ARC upper. I never removed it after getting it zeroed, and it had lost zero by the 5th set, missing yet another coyote.

I'd like to think that there's other issues at play, but I don't have a clue what they could be.....
 
Hey Korey - thanks for being clear about what you mean. We spoke before I bought my SY and I just want you to know I don’t hold any ill will towards you at all. From what I can tell you are a stand up guy and I appreciate you taking the time to tell me about your experience with the SY prototype. I also had POI issues with my Trail and can relate to your frustrations there.

Just to be clear, I haven’t tested zero shift on my scope. My personally verified issues are the qd mount not returning to zero and the zeroing coordinates not tracking correctly. That said, I’ve shot more than a few in the spine this year that the video showed a normal right behind the shoulder shot. Not sure what happened on those. Also had a stand where I killed two and missed one all within 30 yards of each other. The miss looked like a perfect shot on the video. Those experiences have made me wonder about POI shift, but haven’t taken the time to test.
 
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