Shotshell Reloading Rabbit-hole Help

Zastava223rem

Zastava223rem

Member
Going down yet another rabbit-hole in the reloading world getting reading to reload some 12 gauge target and hunting loads. Press is an older MEC600 JR. Component list is Red Dot and Longshot powder, Claybuster wads (WAA12 equivalent), Remington Gun club hulls and Remington 209 STS primers.

Looking at data, Hodgdon lists a load with 1 1/8 Ounce shot, the Remington 209P STS primer and WAA12 wads at 1420 FPS to 1530 FPS. Seems high at first glance but I checked some of my factory ammo and some of my Kent FastLead loads are 1 1/2 Ounce clocking at 1415 fps. Do you think this max speed of 1530 FPS and max pressure of 11,500 PSI would be okay for regular low brass(low steel I guess) Gunclub shells?

Obviously I am going to start on the lower end of that published data just like with metallic reloading but want to do it right without burning up components
 
Probably get a better pattern at about 1150/1200 fps or so.
For clays 1 oz shot will break as many birds as 11/8.
Won't beat you up as bad so normally shoot better with a better over all outcome.
Shot is the most expensive component.
 
With your components about 18.0gr of Red Dot would give you a good load for 1-1/8oz skeet or trap loads. Probably pattern a lot better and be easier on your shoulder. High velocity in shot shells doesn't mean much.
 
Stick to the lower velocity loads. I havent done very much shotshell reloading but loads in the 1200fps range give or take 100fps generally pattern best. Also your loading a target wad that is designed for that FPS range. If you want more from the load I’d switch to a different powder like hs6 and a field/hunting wad and a hotter primer like a federal 209a or a Winchester 209
 
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Originally Posted By: Zastava223rem Do you think this max speed of 1530 FPS and max pressure of 11,500 PSI would be okay for regular low brass(low steel I guess) Gunclub shells?


Yes. The Gun Club/low brass shell will work just fine.

Stay with a published load, of course.

I do get more reloads out of better hulls, like STS, AA or Federal Gold Medal.
 
There is no good reason to load any shotgun shells at over 1450 fps.

For 1-1/8 oz lead loads in 2-3/4" shells 1300 fps loads have much more recoil than 1200 fps lead loads have. If you want targets loads, 1 oz loads at 1200 fps will break targets just fine.

Round shotgun pellets slow down very fast. In fact, the faster they start out the faster they slow down.

From KPY Shotshell Ballistics.
1300 fps lead #8 shot is down to 511 fps at 50 yards away and it has .62 lbs energy at 50 yards away.
1200 fps lead #7-1/2 shot is down to 512 fps at 50 yards away and it has .73 lbs energy at 50 yards.

The lead #8 shot that starts out 100 fps faster is 1 fps slower at 50.0 yards away.
The slower lead #7-1/2 shot gets .84" of gel penetration at 50 yards and the faster lead #8 shot gets .76" of gel penetration.


1550 fps steel #4 shot is down to 584 fps at 50 yards away and it has 1.74 lbs energy at 50 yards away.
1400 fps steel #2 shot is down to 611 fps at 50 yards away and it has 2.92 lbs energy at 50 yards.
The steel #4 shot that starts out 150 fps faster is 27 fps slower at 50 yards away.

The main thing that goes up when you jack up the speed of shotgun shells is the recoil. Going up one size or two sizes in the shot size will give you more speed and penetration down range, than jacking the speed way up on smaller shot will.

Since 2004 I have shot nothing, but 12 ga 7/8 oz and 1 oz lead target loads at Trap, Skeet, 5-Stand and Sporting Clays. Lead 7-1/2 shot will break targets much farther away than lead #8 shot can.
 
Longshot will give a heavier feeling recoil than Red dot, but I like the Long shot for hunting and targets. 1300+ fps recoil over a round of sporting clays is noticeable over normal loads. I do want my pheasant loads at 1400 and above, Dec birds 5 shot nickel plated.
 
My un-scientific observations over 60 yrs of shotgunning, trap, skeet, sporting clays, upland and waterfowl hunting, gunning for bird dog hunt tests, and predator hunting that speed is highly overrated in shotshells, even 1250fps steel worked fine for me. Almost everything I load is between 1100 and 1200 fps and if not, it is even lower. Charge weights that have been very successful for me is an ounce of shot and surprisingly it is my goto in 12, 16, and 20ga. The only time I deviate is with 1 1/4 oz of shot in my predator loads.

One of the most effective things in shotgunning is getting close to your quarry. A good dog far outshines expensive ammo, learning what waterfowl want and fooling them into thinking you have it will put them in your lap, setting up so your shots will be 50 yards and in will kill preds with the mildest of loads. The farther you have to shoot the greater the chance of missing or just putting a couple of pellets in and having the critter go to waste.

Another is practice, I love shooting lowgun skeet and it will get you used to the angles and leads, trap will teach you to shoot a critter in the azz, I am finding Sporting Clays to be a well-rounded practice, running rabbits will double for coyotes and flying clays will give you everything from flushing quail to incoming honkers.

Good luck to you, the MEC is a good machine, I have 600's in 12 and 16 and another that I can convert from 20 to 10ga and back, I only load 2 7/8 10ga so it is a simple change.

1oz NP BB
C3gith.jpg


7/8oz ITX 6's
KP88Nj.jpg


1oz lead 6's MT wild pheasants. Interesting 3 colour phases of birds.
UpN2qD.jpg
 
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Myself and several others just use 7/8 oz loads for skeet. I miss so many it doesn't matter. LOL! But it saves on lead and easy on the shoulder and when I do get lucky, it breaks clays just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSMy un-scientific observations over 60 yrs of shotgunning, trap, skeet, sporting clays, upland and waterfowl hunting, gunning for bird dog hunt tests, and predator hunting that speed is highly overrated in shotshells, even 1250fps steel worked fine for me. Almost everything I load is between 1100 and 1200 fps and if not, it is even lower. Charge weights that have been very successful for me is an ounce of shot and surprisingly it is my goto in 12, 16, and 20ga. The only time I deviate is with 1 1/4 oz of shot in my predator loads.

You certainly do have good taste! Nice looking birds and good looking shotguns!

One of the most effective things in shotgunning is getting close to your quarry. A good dog far outshines expensive ammo, learning what waterfowl want and fooling them into thinking you have it will put them in your lap, setting up so your shots will be 50 yards and in will kill preds with the mildest of loads. The farther you have to shoot the greater the chance of missing or just putting a couple of pellets in and having the critter go to waste.

Another is practice, I love shooting lowgun skeet and it will get you used to the angles and leads, trap will teach you to shoot a critter in the azz, I am finding Sporting Clays to be a well-rounded practice, running rabbits will double for coyotes and flying clays will give you everything from flushing quail to incoming honkers.

Good luck to you, the MEC is a good machine, I have 600's in 12 and 16 and another that I can convert from 20 to 10ga and back, I only load 2 7/8 10ga so it is a simple change.

1oz NP BB
C3gith.jpg


7/8oz ITX 6's
KP88Nj.jpg


1oz lead 6's MT wild pheasants. Interesting 3 colour phases of birds.
UpN2qD.jpg
 
Thank you all for the advice, I am going to pick up a couple of manuals and do some reading before I start. I am going to use the reddot to start for now and save the longshot
 
I make up duplex loads 7.5/6 for early Huns/pheasant with pointing dogs. 5/6 for pheasant. Nov till end of season pheasant, nickel 5's, max velocity. All 12 ga loads. These loads allow me to backup shots by other hunters, with a bit more range.
 
With lead shot it's not as critical for the higher velocities like as with steel being lighter around 7.8 g/cc. Longshot is a fabulous 1.25oz 1400 fps late season pheasant load powder though.

When it comes to target loads Red Dot is a favorite for lite 12 gauge target loads. Back in the day when used to load a lot of 12 gauge target loads I used it for standard velocity 1,200 fps 1 oz loads and when I wanted to be more economical and strech my shot a little farther I'd load 7/8oz loads.

I always prefered the slightly slower burning Green Dot for the faster or heavier target/field loads.

Being that lead shot is quite a bit more expensive these days, Red Dot makes excellent 7/8 and 1 oz 12 gauge loads.
 
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