Super yoter issues

Originally Posted By: 204 ARI never thought about it being too far back. Here's mine, there is about 1/4" of the longer mount clamp on the other side hanging in back of the rail. Too far back?

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Hard to tell by the picture. I usually go by rail slots left. This is also the standard mount. I actually have never used this mount on a gun.
 
I cut a piece of foil maybe the size of my pinky nail. Small enough I couldn't get both legs of a staple in it. I loosened the mount 3 or 4 click from where it was which was 2 clicks from as tight as it would go with the lever all the way forward or open.
I shot on 2x and it stacked both about .5" low and 1 " right.
I then gave it 1 click at 1x up and 1 left.
Shot 2 more and again it stacked both at the top edge of the foil but still .5" right.
I gave it 1 more click left at 1x and shot 2 more.
It stacked them but was now atleast 1.5" left of the foil.
My only option was to go back that click to my previous coordinate.
After that move it put one in the top right corner of the foil and one almost touching just to the right .
I also payed close attention to the inclinometer which seems like my pip box is tilted to the left when at 0.

I'm not on even .54 coordinates. However if I am on coordinates that it responded properly to I hope it will stay.
I'm on 2.03 and 2.25 and I am wondering if I would be better with both at 2.16 which is 4 clicks at 1x vs. some higher power clicks mixed in.
 
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Yeah thats frustrating. I moved mine forward one notch and shot a few shots, it's good at 100 at base mag and 2x so I'll check it again after the next hunt.
 
Originally Posted By: Dark moon 63It sounds to me like someone needs to come up with a scope base that's at least twice as long and locks to the rail in 2 places. There is a reason these are compact scopes. Most people don't want to add a really big and long base to such a light and compact scope. Their mounts and the LaRue work very well for almost everyone. In the cases where a user can't get it far enough back, an extended rail or riser can fix or Bering can put on a bolt action mount. They have 3 different lengths to push back the scope as much as 3". I personally am glad they don't have a bulky mount.

Varminter, hopefully you got it working for you. If not before sending it in, I know you have said this gun is a tack-driver for you. However, I would recommend mounting your day scope and shooting it in the exact same manner under different days/temps etc just to make sure something else isn't causing a shift. Lots of powders react differently to temp.
 
Shot one round this evening at a handwarmer folded in half. I tried to shrink the heat signature by stapling a strip of wet cardboard to each side of the handwarmer and the top. I had an area maybe a little bigger than a quarter exposed. The round hit dead center and at the top edge of the exposed area of the hand warmer. That is exactly where I was yesterday afternoon after loosening the mount a bit and rezeroing with 1x adjustments. I've also done all the shooting at 2x mag using the pip. It's been around 50 degrees when I shot the last 2 times. It's supposed to be 19 degrees Wednesday. I will shoot it then and probably tomorrow as well.
 
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Poi was a tad high and 3ish inches left this morning. Groups were lousy as well but wind was howling right to left. I had to test it though. It was pretty calm this evening when I shot 2 more and they were still 1.5 left and now a little low but touching. After I went back inside I decided to check my coordinates and they were not at 2.03 and 2.25 where they previously were shooting great. Somehow they both moved up numerically 1 click. The horizontal moved to the 2.52 number that jumps poi left about 1.5". I decided to go back to 0 and move my coordinates to 2.16 and 2.16 which is four clicks at 1x. However I can't get elevation back to zero. It goes from .09 to -.04 and I've tried 2,3,&4x but it won't go back to zero. I did a factory reset and it still holds the coordinates. I went to G2 profile and have it on 2.16 and 2.16 but that doesn't fix my G1 profile.
 
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So I went into my vertical coordinates and went up until the reticle jumped to the very bottom of the screen and I kept going up and it came back to true 0.
Set it at 2.16 and 2.16. shot 2 1.5" low and 1.5" left.
Moved 2 clicks at 1x up and right to 1.08 and 1.08. I shot 2 more that are now inline with handwarmer left and right but but probably 4" high.
I come 1 click down to 1.62 and it's still 3" high. Groups were not good. I notice when the scope tracks properly my bullets almost touch and when it does not my groups are 1.5" ish. My Trail 2 should be back Thursday or Friday. I'm gonna call Bering and get this thing sent in. It is not right.
 
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Bering is sending a return label to me via snail mail. Friday night I cleaned the rifle and it was still the same poi as the previous test after 1 fouling shot. Shot it a bit ago and poi is 1.5" right. Looseed the mount and reattached the scope, shot 1 and it stacked right with the first 2. Gonna be very interesting to see what Bering says. Right now this thing is no better than my Pulsar Trail XP 5O's.
 
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Man I'm sorry to hear your troubles continue. I'm confident it'll serve you well in the long run and the Pulsar's won't even be comparable. Everytime I had to send a Pulsar in it ended my season and usually cost me $100 to ship. I bet you will be hammering coyotes with it in short order!
 
New Pulsar came today. I had it zeroed in 3 shots. It seemed to track and group well. Shot the yoter again and it is now 1.5" low and an inch left vs an inch right like last night. I hope my return label gets here soon and they do find issues and turn it around quick.
 
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So I got the Super Yoter this year and have been killing a bunch with it, but the longer shots haven’t been falling for me like they have in the past with my old PTS536.. Finally got some time to do some serious testing yesterday shooting at a hand warmer at 300 yards on a calm night. I wanted to see how it grouped, verify it shot same POI at all zoom levels, and verify it held POI when reattaching the scope. Here is what I learned about my particular scope.

The Good

1). The scope can shoot amazing groups at distance. 1.5” group at 300 yards with a thermal beyond what I could ask for. That’s every bit as good as the gun shoots with daytime optics.

The Bad

1). The crosshairs visibly move when zooming from 3x to 4x. Sandbagged up you can watch them jump approximately 4” at 300 yards as you toggle back and forth. Thankfully it doesn’t seem to do this jumping between the other zoom levels.

2). I shot a three shot group removing and reattaching the scope between shots. My scope is mounted far enough forward that the whole thing is contacting the rail. First shot was a couple inches high of the previous group. Second shot was ten inches right. Third shot was back ten inches left with the first shot. This leads me to believe the mount wants to return to zero, but it is possible to be wildly off and can’t really be trusted.

3). Zeroing doesn’t track true. First group was several inches right. By only adjusting windage, my next group was not only left but also higher.


My conclusions:

I think the scope will work great as long as I leave it mounted all season, don’t shoot at high zoom, and waste a few more shells than should be needed sighting in. I like shooting and testing, but I think it’s a little disappointing that you have to go to this amount of time and effort to find out which features of your scope you need to avoid. With that said, I would be generally happy with the scope if I could solve the qd mount issue. Does anyone know if there are other options?
 
Originally Posted By: varminter .223Sounds like plenty of people are having problems but haven't posted like they did with the Trail issues. The Hogsters, Super Hogsters, and Super Yoters are not only the best sellers at Night Goggles, but Bering Optics continues to be the lowest RMA and failure rates of any of the brands we carry. Along with all the thermals we sell, I monitor several other sites including the Bering Optics facebook group with thousands of Bering Optics users. There are not widespread issues that anyone is reporting. This does not mean you aren't experiencing an issue but overall, most users are extremely satisfied with their Super Yoters.
 
WestTx,

My comments are going to sound like I have tons of excuses or things to check. However, in the years I have been part of the thermal world including going through the Pulsar Trail issues, I have realized there are some scope issues and lots of other potential issues that can cause POI issues. I was one of the people who experienced the POI shift in the original Trails. I did not like it when I called Pulsar, and they went through a laundry list of reasons why my POI shift could be happening. I spent a ton of time and bullets proving the issue was not gun, ammo, rest, etc. However, there really are a lot of reasons this can happen.

One happened to me just today. I put my SY back on a gun I had previously used it on. I did some work on the gun, so I just wanted to see if my zero was still on. I was about .5" left. I adjusted it one click and took another shot, and holy crap I was 8" right just like you mentioned happened to you. First thought that goes through my mind is did I hold the adjustment button down too long and the value jumped too far. I checked my zero settings that I had written down and it hadn't. I went through and checked everything and realized my suppressor wasn't snug. Tightened it up, and my group shot exactly where it was supposed to be. It was just a little loose but little things like this can and do make a big difference. This has happened with my glass scope with the same result. In my situation, it wasn't a scope issue at all as it was a gun issue that caused that errant shot, but it would have been so easy to say it was the scope.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06So 1). The scope can shoot amazing groups at distance. 1.5” group at 300 yards with a thermal beyond what I could ask for. That’s every bit as good as the gun shoots with daytime optics. This is amazing accuracy at that distance.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06 1). The crosshairs visibly move when zooming from 3x to 4x. Sandbagged up you can watch them jump approximately 4” at 300 yards as you toggle back and forth. Thankfully it doesn’t seem to do this jumping between the other zoom levels. Did you shoot at 4x to see if it still had the same POI? Many thermals have to jump between zoom levels depending on their X,Y coordinate adjustments.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06 I shot a three shot group removing and reattaching the scope between shots. My scope is mounted far enough forward that the whole thing is contacting the rail. First shot was a couple inches high of the previous group. Second shot was ten inches right. Third shot was back ten inches left with the first shot. This leads me to believe the mount wants to return to zero, but it is possible to be wildly off and can’t really be trusted. Like any QD mount, make sure that you are always mounting it the same. The general consensus on shooting forums is to push the scope and mount as far forward on the rail slot as possible before closing the locking lever. Many people (including myself) use LaRue clips to make 100% sure they are back on the correct rail slot. Also, make sure you get a good tension level on the rail lever to not be too tight or too loose. I have removed my Super Yoter maybe 100 times. Has it always been absolutely perfect, no I can't claim that but I don't think I have ever been off by more than 1" when doing what I am saying.

Having something slightly touch your barrel or sitting on bags a little differently can all cause things like this happen. Because it came back on the 3rd shot makes me believe something happened between shot 1 and 3. If all three were wildly different, I would be more worried. The fact it came back leads me to believe something impacted the gun on the 2nd shot. Because 2 of 3 shots were the same, I would recommend trying it a few more times and see if you can see a pattern as to something you may be doing slightly different when it shifts. I know ammo isn't cheap or easy to come by, but try it a few more times. If a LaRue mount won't return to zero, there aren't many more reputable options.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/063). Zeroing doesn’t track true. First group was several inches right. By only adjusting windage, my next group was not only left but also higher. I am not saying there couldn't be an issue, but make sure your mount is tight. Write down your horizontal and vertical numbers to make sure an adjustment hasn't happened by accident that was unintentional as it happens to all of us. Also, guns shoot different as they heat up. If it sounds like I am making excuses there are so many reasons guns can change POI, it isn't always the scope, but it could be. I use 1x zoom to make my adjustments as .54" should get everyone within at least .27" of where they want to be and usually closer. When I hear of people's zero not tracking with adjustments, it seems like they are usually changing the values at 2x, 3x or 4x. I have seen more consistent results when changing the values at 1x. Should this be the case, no, but just trying to narrow down what might be occurring for you. This is the first time Bering has ever allowed a scope adjustment at anything but 1x.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06 I like shooting and testing, but I think it’s a little disappointing that you have to go to this amount of time and effort to find out which features of your scope you need to avoid. With that said, I would be generally happy with the scope if I could solve the qd mount issue. Does anyone know if there are other options? I've already mentioned what I would recommend. I would make sure the handle is tight enough but not too tight. I would also make 100% sure you are following the exact same procedure every time you mount and don't change the pressure/tightness of the handle when doing this.

LaRue is known for their precision and honestly this mount is about as good as any I have personally ever tested including Bobro, ZroDelta, and more. However, if you truly do not like the LaRue, you could buy a Bobro mount and have Bering install it for you. They typically do not charge to put a new mount on. Bobro's self adjust as far as tension. I hate the way their handles snap a person's fingers if you are not careful but lots of people like Bobro mounts. I personally have had better luck with LaRue and ADM but that is me. Remember Bering is so committed to accuracy, they align every mount to their scopes using an optical bench, and then reset it to 0,0 so they are as close to centered as possible. They secure it and epoxy it to make sure they don't move.

I ran the same test multiple times when I first received the Super Yoter prototype this fall. My tests were only 100 yards, but after doing the same test, my best group of the day was when I removed and remounted the SY three shots in a row. I virtually shot the same hole three times in a row. That test convinced me then and still to this day, I have seen nothing from my guns that suggests the LaRue mount won't return to zero.

I also recommend people shoot off the tripod they plan to use when hunting for final zero because many guns shoot slightly different off a tripod than off bags (even if free-floated).


 
Good advice Kirsch. Funny you mentioned the snapping of the Bobro mounts. Just last night I seriously pinched my finger! I didn't cry but my allergies acted up lol

Overall I've had really good rtz with Bobro and like how it uses two attachment points and can set my particular scope further rearward.
 
Not a yoter fan boy, do not own one. My buddy does & I thought I would share his issue with you. He mounted it on his rifle, shot a 3 shot group at 100 yards 1" high dead center. Never made any adjustments. How about that issue? Just as it came out of the box.
 
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