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#3287618 - 12/11/21 03:39 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: AWS]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15632
Loc: okla
Originally Posted By: AWS
the only advantage over a bolt they have is they hold lots of cartridges and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. They are awkward, complicated, noisy, hard to shoot off a bench, not great triggers, not very handy off shooting sticks and not great for fast target acquisition. Lots of minuses for the one plus.

comments from experience



Sorry but I can't agree with some of this and I'm not an AR guy. I've had a few but those days are gone. While certain stocks don't work well on a bench, there are some that work just fine, as for triggers, you'll never get a jewell type trigger but there are some pretty good triggers on the market today. Shooting off a bench or sticks, with a float tube type fore-end, I can't say it was ever a problem. Complicated, Nah! Actually pretty simple to work on but may need a few specialty tools. My main nitch is I hate picking up brass. Granted the bolt slamming is noisy and some can get heavy but for fast follow up shots they're hard to beat. For coyotes I really prefer my bolt rifles but if I was hunting hogs, I can see where an AR might be a better choice. I want to kill all those corn robbing SOB's I could.
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#3287619 - 12/11/21 03:50 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
LUCKYDOG Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 1717
Loc: Huntin' Somewhere In Colorado
. I have a Ruger AR .556. I also have a couple of Palmetto state armory AR's. They are great rifles but not that accurate. If you want an accurate AR without breaking the bank, I think you need took at a 20" barrel. I had a DPMS Prairie Panther that would shoot bug holes straight from the factory with factory ammo. It really liked the 55 grain ballistic tips remanufactured ammo from Black Hills. However, I really prefer my bolt guns for hunting.


Edited by LUCKYDOG (12/11/21 11:05 PM)
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#3287622 - 12/11/21 04:25 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
pyscodog Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 15632
Loc: okla
My first AR was a Colt. What a POS! It was minute of human body at best. My 2nd was a RRA Pred. with a 20" heavy barrel. In all honesty, I would put it up against just about any bolt gun out there. It was stupid accurate. Had a custom build in 204R that shot pretty good to but it went down the road. somewhere in the mix, I built a few, but after the RRA I just lost interest as none held a candle to the Rock. I haven't owned an AR in years and unless another RRA Pred comes around I probably won't own another.
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#3287626 - 12/11/21 04:31 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
alf Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 1654
Loc: SW Wisconsin

I used to feel the same as AWS, but I've changed my tune biggly with night hunting on the menu....

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#3287627 - 12/11/21 04:57 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: AWS]
GC Online
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Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16998
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: AWS
the only advantage over a bolt they have is they hold lots of cartridges and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. They are awkward, complicated, noisy, hard to shoot off a bench, not great triggers, not very handy off shooting sticks and not great for fast target acquisition. Lots of minuses for the one plus.

comments from experience


Again, some of that is simple preference. AR's do hold lots of cartridges, though I'm not sure that's a big deal in a typical hunting situation. Follow up shots are very quick and come without disturbing the sight picture because of a need to physically manipulate the action to reload. That is a plus.

Awkward is a draw, give that to personal preference and what you get used to. AR's are not complicated, in fact they are very straightforward to manipulate and keep them operating.

Noisy... maybe so when chambering the first round. Mine stays hot from the time I leave the truck so that's not a consideration for me personally. Hard to shoot from a bench? Ten round magazines pretty much solve that issue.

Good triggers are all over the place and don't need to cost an arm and a leg. The RRA two stage is a very good trigger and often can be found for around $100. Install can be done without needing a gunsmith unless you're a putz in the shop. I've seen those combo shotgun/rifles you favor and I'd be willing to bet on a good AR trigger as much better than those combo guns have. Shooting off sticks is an issue? Can't possibly see how. And it has never been an issue for me or anyone I know.

Not great for fast target acquisition? C'mon... that's silly. The sporting world blazes down targets in various matches and law enforcement and the military burn down bad guys PDQ. Other than a shotgun I don't know anything faster.

It seems you just aren't comfortable with the AR platform and don't like them. That's ok, you don't have to. Your issues with the platform aren't other peoples experiences.
Different strokes...
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#3287629 - 12/11/21 05:11 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4882
Loc: Oakland County, MI
if you wanna end up with a winner on a budget....

buy an entry level ar with a free float handguard on it. BCA, PSA, ARStoner from midway... whoever... pick your poison. shop for price though.

then go spend $250-$300 on a quality barrel to swap out, put a better grip on it (I like houge overmold ergo, but whatever floats your boat), throw a Rise ARmamement trigger in there and you're pretty much good to go.



just for giggles here's your price list if you wanted to assemble a good bundle today.

$159 - BCA complete lower - (+ whatever your transfer fee locally will be)
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/ar-15/a...ber-billet.html

$285 - 223 wylde side charging upper - 18" barrel, mid gas, 15" handguard
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/caliber...lash-upper.html

so you're at $444 for a complete rifle, just add magazine and optics.




rise armament RA140 drop in trigger is on sale right now for $80 - seriously - go buy one of these now if you're thinking about a budget AR anytime in the near future. you cant beat it with a stick at this price to get a decent trigger. these are normally $149 and on sale for $129
https://www.primaryarms.com/rise-armament-super-sporting-single-stage-trigger-with-anti-walk-pins

i just bought two of them to upgrade some lowers for $176 delivered with tax and shipping.

so now you're at $532 with a VERY respectable trigger thats stupid simple to install.




if by chance that doesnt shoot for crap.... - we've got 4 of BCA's 223 uppers in the family and they're all MOA or better with quality ammo mind you.

for $275 stuff a WOA 18" SPR in there
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/spr-barrels-mid-rifle-gas-7-8-twist.html

or a 18" predator from them for $295
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/223-5-56-predator-barrel-1-8-twist-with-gas-manifold-875.html

total invested at that point for a gun that'll shoot bugholes and have a nice crisp trigger break call it $810-$830 for a round number.


HTH
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#3287631 - 12/11/21 05:25 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
Dark moon 63 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/01/21
Posts: 183
Loc: Iowa
+1 for plant one. The barrel is everything. I can live with not the best trigger with a good barrel.

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#3287642 - 12/11/21 07:29 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 6172
Loc: NM
Bolt actions and combo guns, no BCGs to tear down and clean, no gas tubes to clean. All but one of my combo guns have set triggers that can go down into ounces. You rarely see an AR in competition unless it is geared to fast repeated shots.

On sticks they tend to flop over while calling.

On the bench even with a ten round mag they are hard to shoot with a rear bag.

They just aren't the be all for everyone. You have to be someone who thinks fast multiple shots are more important. There is nothing an AR does better than a bolt for the first accurate shot.

All my combo guns are basically single shots and I never feel under gunned when I use them. In more open country a bolt gives me enough fire power to shoot multiple targets.


Edited by AWS (12/11/21 07:33 PM)
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#3287645 - 12/11/21 07:56 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: AWS]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5795
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: AWS
the only advantage over a bolt they have is they hold lots of cartridges and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.


some guys do need that. you know who you are. smile
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#3287651 - 12/11/21 09:00 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
GC Online
PM Junkie

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 16998
Loc: Missouri
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: AWS
the only advantage over a bolt they have is they hold lots of cartridges and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.


some guys do need that. you know who you are. smile


Hey now, rumor and gossip, nothing more.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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#3287675 - 12/11/21 11:26 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: GC]
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 17127
Loc: S. Texas
Originally Posted By: AWS
the only advantage over a bolt they have is they hold lots of cartridges and shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. They are awkward, complicated, noisy, hard to shoot off a bench, not great triggers, not very handy off shooting sticks and not great for fast target acquisition. Lots of minuses for the one plus.

comments from experience


Understand your preference for your platforms, but, as stated by GC, most of the minuses are not the reality experienced by others.

I was slow to learn to appreciate the AR's having shot XTC rifle competition first with the Garand and transitioned to a bolt gun when ageing eyes dictated aperture sights. Inaccurate rifles do not interest me, but as the AR's began to gain favor on competition ranges, I began to appreciate their accuracy, but never shot one until I quit shooting competition.

Have to say, the AR is a perfect calling rifle. I do not find them awkward or complicated. I never load more than 10 rounds in a magazine and that only when I'll be away from the jeep for extended period of time. While a full size AR can be on the heavier side, this little M4gery is short/fast and plenty accurate. Put the lower together from a parts kit, added a PSA upper and it shoots under MOA groups on demand right out of the box Did add a $9.95 JOE BOB'S TRIGGER ADJUSTING SCREW which produced a very crisp 2 stage trigger (PSA M4 pic below right).

Never a problem to shoot off sticks or bench w/standard 20 round mags. In fact a bit higher front rest and rear bag makes for a much more comfortable (upright) benchrest shooting position IMO and the AR pistol grip places strong hand in a much more natural angle to make trigger pull much straighter to the rear than conventional stocks....again, my opinion/preference.

When forced to switch from AR to bolt gun (landowner preference), had a terrible time switching back until I altered my Savage pistol grip to get angle closer to the AR.

Back to accuracy, bear in mind the PSA upper was an entry level rifle. Bushmaster Predator and most other higher end AR's shoot sub 1/2 moa w/great regularity.

The only time I appreciate the large capacity magazine is for still hunting and when hogs are the target. Nothing like an AR when you're up to your ears in hogs. lol


As GC said, what one sees as minuses, others put in the plus column.

Originally Posted By: GC
Again, some of that is simple preference. AR's do hold lots of cartridges, though I'm not sure that's a big deal in a typical hunting situation. Follow up shots are very quick and come without disturbing the sight picture because of a need to physically manipulate the action to reload. That is a plus.

Awkward is a draw, give that to personal preference and what you get used to. AR's are not complicated, in fact they are very straightforward to manipulate and keep them operating.

Noisy... maybe so when chambering the first round. Mine stays hot from the time I leave the truck so that's not a consideration for me personally. Hard to shoot from a bench? Ten round magazines pretty much solve that issue.

Good triggers are all over the place and don't need to cost an arm and a leg. The RRA two stage is a very good trigger and often can be found for around $100. Install can be done without needing a gunsmith unless you're a putz in the shop. I've seen those combo shotgun/rifles you favor and I'd be willing to bet on a good AR trigger as much better than those combo guns have. Shooting off sticks is an issue? Can't possibly see how. And it has never been an issue for me or anyone I know.

Not great for fast target acquisition? C'mon... that's silly. The sporting world blazes down targets in various matches and law enforcement and the military burn down bad guys PDQ. Other than a shotgun I don't know anything faster.

It seems you just aren't comfortable with the AR platform and don't like them. That's ok, you don't have to. Your issues with the platform aren't other peoples experiences.
Different strokes...


+1

Regards,
hm
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If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




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#3287688 - 12/12/21 08:54 AM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Plant.One]
AdamT Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/04/15
Posts: 2896
Loc: Southwest Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Plant.One
if you wanna end up with a winner on a budget....

buy an entry level ar with a free float handguard on it. BCA, PSA, ARStoner from midway... whoever... pick your poison. shop for price though.

then go spend $250-$300 on a quality barrel to swap out, put a better grip on it (I like houge overmold ergo, but whatever floats your boat), throw a Rise ARmamement trigger in there and you're pretty much good to go.


just for giggles here's your price list if you wanted to assemble a good bundle today.

$159 - BCA complete lower - (+ whatever your transfer fee locally will be)
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/ar-15/a...ber-billet.html

$285 - 223 wylde side charging upper - 18" barrel, mid gas, 15" handguard
https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/caliber...lash-upper.html

so you're at $444 for a complete rifle, just add magazine and optics.




rise armament RA140 drop in trigger is on sale right now for $80 - seriously - go buy one of these now if you're thinking about a budget AR anytime in the near future. you cant beat it with a stick at this price to get a decent trigger. these are normally $149 and on sale for $129
https://www.primaryarms.com/rise-armament-super-sporting-single-stage-trigger-with-anti-walk-pins

i just bought two of them to upgrade some lowers for $176 delivered with tax and shipping.

so now you're at $532 with a VERY respectable trigger thats stupid simple to install.




if by chance that doesnt shoot for crap.... - we've got 4 of BCA's 223 uppers in the family and they're all MOA or better with quality ammo mind you.

for $275 stuff a WOA 18" SPR in there
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/spr-barrels-mid-rifle-gas-7-8-twist.html

or a 18" predator from them for $295
https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/223-5-56-predator-barrel-1-8-twist-with-gas-manifold-875.html

total invested at that point for a gun that'll shoot bugholes and have a nice crisp trigger break call it $810-$830 for a round number.


HTH


This!!! Those 18” predator barrels from WOA are great. Great price on that trigger also. Those are your two most important pieces.
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Rich man rolls the dice, Poor man pays the price!

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#3287697 - 12/12/21 10:56 AM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
BobT Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/01/06
Posts: 418
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
I have several different AR rifles and pistols with barrel lengths from 10.5 inches to 22 inches and pretty well all of them are good shooters. I have assembled all of them from parts and I spend most of my money on triggers and barrels the rest of the parts don't really matter that much to me as long as they work. I shoot off sticks, bipods and bench rests all the time and have no issues with any of them. Accuracy wise they will not compete with a custom bolt gun but I have shot several groups in the half inch range at 100 yards. For come what may hunting and general woods walking while checking trail cameras etc. I tend to grab an AR more often than not, the only negatives I have experienced are brass chasing ( since about 1970 I handload for nearly everything I shoot) and I have yet to find a sling that I like for comfortable carry while loafing around in the woods. I might add that none of mine are chambered for the .223/5.56 cartridge and other than a couple in .300 BO they are all wildcats based on the .223 / 5.56 case.

As previous posters have said, different strokes!
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#3287779 - 12/12/21 05:53 PM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
BMP Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/27/10
Posts: 142
Loc: Iowa
It's been said above. Spend your money on a barrel/bolt assy and a good trigger. I have had quite a few custom barrels over the years and the top was an 18" Rainier Ultramatch intermediate gas, second was a 26" heavy bull John Hollinger did me from White Oak Armament and third was an 18" SPR barrel from Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering. All shot well under an inch. I did have an $80 PSA barrel that would shoot my handloads well. It would shoot 3/4" groups consistently. I was surprised. As for a trigger. A Giselle two stage national match - match rifle trigger is second to none.

Brad


Edited by BMP (12/12/21 05:54 PM)
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#3287932 - 12/14/21 11:58 AM Re: Most affordable, but accurate AR? [Re: Dogdownohio2016]
Coyote-conquest Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 251
Loc: Kentucky, US
I think you would be happy with either. Personally I'd go with the S&W just because some of the stuff Ruger uses is proprietary.
Shoot it for a while then get you a decent trigger and you will be happy. You may end up changing a few things out just for preference.
I started out with a cheap DPMS years ago and now I have several.

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