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#3286863 - 12/03/21 05:55 PM New AR Time .
isu22yote Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 34
Loc: Iowa
I need... errr want a new AR for my thermal coyote hunting . Want a harder hitting cartridge than 223. Im not a reloader so need factory options and I have a surpresser. Was thinking 6.5 grendel was the best fit ? My question is - should I go pistol or full lenght ? My AR im using now is heavy and feels 5 foot long with that surpressor on it with a 16 inch barrel , however , Id like something that shoots relatively flat to 150-200 yards. Lighter the better ! Maybe Im asking too much lol . Any full built 14 inch 6.5 uppers ? My heads spinning . Need some opinions !!

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#3286867 - 12/03/21 06:51 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
murdoc Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 146
Loc: Wisconsin
Grendel is a good option. 12” pistol maybe if you’re after shorter lighter.

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#3286872 - 12/03/21 08:44 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
flowj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 202
Loc: Ky.
The 6.8 SPC does well with short tubes. 110 grain VMax hits hard for factory ammo. I reload so 90 grain Gold Dots are my go to when hunting with a 6.8. My fave is my 6X6.8 with 58 grain Vmax. But since you don't reload that not an option. Good luck with your choice.

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#3286918 - 12/04/21 10:57 AM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
arlaunch Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/09/17
Posts: 644
Loc: OR
At 150-200 yards, I am not so sure you will gain any real advantageous weight savings or power going that route?

Maybe a shorter package at the expense of higher ammo costs?

Trajectory may be worse? Terminal performance may be worse also?

The larger bullet would be better for going through bone on a larger animal. But a 25-30lb Coyote?
_________________________
Be consistent with your loading, practice your shooting, speak the truth, love your family and you will be rewarded.

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#3286995 - 12/04/21 10:36 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
isu22yote Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 34
Loc: Iowa
l want a bang flop caliber . 223 is fine 70 percent of the time . I’ve shot hornaday soft points , vmaxs , nosler BT , and sometimes you just double lung them and they run 100 yards then die , which is fine during the day , at night it gets tricky to find them in the thick stuff !

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#3287007 - 12/05/21 12:32 AM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
204 AR Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 5848
Loc: Nebraska
Factory ammo leaves a lot of good options by the wayside like the 243 wssm, and short barrel neuters any flat shooters anyway.

The best thing I can think of is to find a dpms g2 compact hunter in 243 win. That will have a 16" barrel and will still hit hard and normally tons of ammo out there, if things ever get back to normal. It's still going to be loud with a can I think but probably manageable. I have the 20" version and it's a great rifle and not much heavier or bulkier than a normal ar.

Otherwise, 224 Valkerie is marginally faster than 223, 22 Nosler a bit better with light bullets, 6 Arc but there's really no light bullets loaded, and 6.5 G if you can find the load with 90 gr tnt's.
Maybe the 6.8 spc with light bullets.

FWIW I like a 22" barrel with suppressor so I can't relate to the stubby barrel thing haha. I can agree this is a case where short would be handy I guess.
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#3287048 - 12/05/21 12:30 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4830
Loc: Oakland County, MI
im with 204AR - i like 18-20" barrels with my 8" can, so not really into the shorty thing for hunting guns (i have several pistol uppers i play with too! smile ). the one that i dislike is my 24" bull barrel... the can makes an already nose heavy gun downright anchor like feeling
.

that said - even with factory offerings only being in the 108gr class... i would still consider a 6mm ARC

as far as the arc goes in shorter platforms with the 108gr offerings i found this over on the hide



cant verify original source, but poster claimed it was a reply to their comment on hornady's barrel length video (youtube?)



if we assume 2350 for the 108 ELD-M for a 12" barrel - with a 175yd zero

50 yds - 0.2" high
100 yds - 1.5" high
150 yds - 1.0" high
200 yds - 1.5" low


@ 200 yds = 2049 fps with 1007 ft/lbs of energy.

so you could build a 12 or 12.5" pistol, throw your can on, and have a platform with an OAL somewhere around 36" with your can on - depending on the OAL of your can.

at least that gives you a rough idea.
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All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
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#3287052 - 12/05/21 12:55 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4830
Loc: Oakland County, MI
just for a straw man....

6.5grendel 123g eld-m out of a 12" barrel = 2265 fps (labradar data from 6.5G forum, PSA upper)

so going with the same 175yd zero gets you the following


50 yds - 0.4" high
100 yds - 1.7" high
150 yds - 1.1" high
200 yds - 1.6" low

@ 200 yds = 1954 FPS / 1042 ft/lbs

hth

_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


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#3287054 - 12/05/21 01:36 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
arlaunch Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/09/17
Posts: 644
Loc: OR
Those energy figures are impressive! 1042 ft/lbs at 200 yards.

That is far better than 223 Rem at Nato velocities!

However it has been my possibly false perception that varmints hit with high velocity projectiles go down hard and fast, even with pathetically low ft/lbs ballistic app stuff
_________________________
Be consistent with your loading, practice your shooting, speak the truth, love your family and you will be rewarded.

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#3287063 - 12/05/21 03:25 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
Plant.One Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 4830
Loc: Oakland County, MI
ya... as i noted - i prefer longer barrels for hunting for that reason - higher velocity hits out at distance.

op was asking about harder hitting out of short platform at around 200 yds max. so just showing some options of what a couple of comparable cartridges might give them - especially since they asked about the grendel as an option.

providing some data on factory offerings since they dont reload


i'm sure once things settle down - someone will offer the arc in something like a 75gr vmax for varmint usage.


if you could get one of those at around 2700 in a 12" (assuming a "standard" 50 fps/in loss from the 18" data at 3000 fps in a gas gun) - thats hitting @ 2182 fps @ 200 yds, with a MPBR of +1.1" @ 100/-1.2"@ 200 with a 175yd zero.




not quite the 2400 fps it would be holding @ 200 yds with the 3k FPS 18" platform, which i suspect would be quite violent energy transfer from said vmax.

my arc is a 20" very much for that "smack em fast" mentality smile
_________________________
All reloading info shared is based on my experiences in my guns. Follow safe reloading practice and work up loads from published minimum data.
This disclaimer will self destruct in 10 seconds.


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#3287070 - 12/05/21 04:17 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
arlaunch Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/09/17
Posts: 644
Loc: OR
My post is far from arguing or debating with you. Just an observation for conversation.

Thanks for all the stats. I am liking the look of the ARC as well.
_________________________
Be consistent with your loading, practice your shooting, speak the truth, love your family and you will be rewarded.

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#3287121 - 12/05/21 11:10 PM Re: New AR Time . [Re: isu22yote]
kooman Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 422
Loc: nebraska
I built a 12.5” grendel a couple of years ago, mainly I wanted it for the compact design and I run it suppressed, I finally picked a hand load with 90 Speer tnt and h335, they run 2650 and they work great on coyotes out to 250-300 yards I have also had good accuracy and performance with several factory loads as well


Edited by kooman (12/05/21 11:13 PM)

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#3287230 - 12/07/21 01:48 AM Re: New AR Time . [Re: kooman]
arlaunch Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/09/17
Posts: 644
Loc: OR
Originally Posted By: kooman
I built a 12.5” grendel a couple of years ago, mainly I wanted it for the compact design and I run it suppressed, I finally picked a hand load with 90 Speer tnt and h335, they run 2650 and they work great on coyotes out to 250-300 yards I have also had good accuracy and performance with several factory loads as well


Dang..... That sounds like a great combo. I suppose that TNT is nice and soft and expands like one would want it to. I learned a little from this thread. I have had my head in the sand a bit it seems.
_________________________
Be consistent with your loading, practice your shooting, speak the truth, love your family and you will be rewarded.

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