What matters and what doesn't? Also, should I mask scent with urine?

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happypappy

New member
I've been hunting with my friend since I was a freshman in highschool, I'm 23 now, and everything I've learned is through mistakes, nobody we knew coyote hunted and most didn't really deer hunt either. So I'm not even close to knowing half of what I need to, but I think I know more than when I started.
Now I live somewhere else and I recently met someone from California who has never been hunting but loves shooting and fishing and has always wanted to hunt. We've been out a good few times, but the only time we saw anything was 30 min after dark through my nightscope that I don't currently have a gun for.
Anyways, he tromps around through the desert I swear trying to step on every piece of wood possible making as much noise as he can. I try to hang real low and take any way I can so that we're never on the horizon, but I'll be crouching and he'll just keep walking over like bigfoot even though I've mentioned the importance to him before. I don't have the best camo to match the landscape, but he doesn't have any and doesn't really like wearing mine, not sure why. And then he moves his head and hands a lot, scratches his hair, etc. while we're sitting in stand.
I don't want him to feel like I'm getting on him constantly and burn him out, but I also don't want to never call anything in and burn us both out.

These are all important, right? Are there things I should try and start with first or are we hardly going to get anything until they're all fixed? Any advice?

And then a question on how I can be better: I've heard of covering scent with sardines or rabbit urine and dragging that behind you as you walk to the stand and then keep it sitting by you. Does this work pretty well? I always assumed you couldn't truly cover or mask your scent and that they would just smell you and urine, as opposed to just urine. Is this true or not? I could also imagine it working on younger dogs as opposed to older ones, which would definitely make it worth it, but is it actually worth it?
 
Camo doesn't matter too much. I've killed more in blue jeans and a pure black coat than just about anything. But I don't move either unless it's to move my gun over when the coyote isn't looking or behind cover and I know it can't see me. I don't make noise going into a stand if I can help it. I also try to take the lower ground into a stand if possible which isn't always possible. So I just try to be as quiet as possible,pay attention to my wind and don't move around. I shoulder my rifle from the get go so that's less movement when a coyote shows up. I don't mess with scent killer or camouflage all that much.
 
Lack of movement is best camo there is,as far as cover scent I do not think you are going to fool the nose of Wylie no matter what you do if he gets downwind.Have seen my son kill yotes in deer season wearing orange vest and orange stocking hat at edge of wheatfields.He wears blue jeans most of the time except really cold weather.Do not believe critters see colors if they have eyes that will shine with a light at night,just the humble opinion of an old man that started calling in the early 1970s.
 
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Originally Posted By: happypappy
Anyways, he tromps around through the desert I swear trying to step on every piece of wood possible making as much noise as he can. I try to hang real low and take any way I can so that we're never on the horizon, but I'll be crouching and he'll just keep walking over like bigfoot even though I've mentioned the importance to him before. I don't have the best camo to match the landscape, but he doesn't have any and doesn't really like wearing mine, not sure why. And then he moves his head and hands a lot, scratches his hair, etc. while we're sitting in stand.


that guy would of never been with me a 2nd time.

you can go by yourself. my favorite hunting bud died about 7 years ago. i mostly hunt alone now. kinda prefer it actually.
 
Inst3ad of getting on him about things teach him how to put his feet down so he can feel a stick, move slowly to a stand, work the wind, how to sit still and scan slowly with your eyes and neck not your whole upper body.

Then some folks were never meant to be a coyote hunter. I had a guy that learned to do most everything right and I put coyotes literally in his lap and he either didn't see them they surprised him or kept waiting for a better shot and finally gave up.
 
The coyote hunters that think ten different things matter and make a difference, kill more coyotes than the hunters that think those same ten things don't matter.

I wear camo, camo cotton gloves and a camo face mask on every coyote calling stand I make. I know that it doesn't make any difference on 70% to 90% of the stands I make. But since I don't know what stands it won't matter on, I want to be prepared on every stand I make.

On every stand I make I try to use the wind to keep the coyotes from smelling my vehicle, myself and my e-caller. Sometimes I have to lay prone or sit in the sun to keep the wind in my favor. I would rather sit in the sun with camo on than sit in the shade and have the coyote smell me when it hasn't seen me.

Since most of my stands I am trying to call the coyotes up to within 10 to 15 yards of me, camo is more important to me than if I was shooting a rifle and trying to kill coyotes at 75 yards away and farther.

You can trick a coyotes vision by blending in and not moving and staying low to the ground way more often than you will trick his since of smell by trying to cover your scent cone.

When approaching a coyote calling stand from the tops of hills, ridges and mountain tops keeping a lower profile by crouching down or hiding behind rocks and trees or junipers you will see more coyotes, deer and elk looking at you, than them running away from you as fast as they can.

When keeping your profile low to the ground Coyotes, deer and elk can look right at you but the won't be to alarmed because you are not standing up looking like a human to them.

When we are calling coyotes in wide open areas with no cover and we are laying prone with rifles a big percentage of the coyotes that are approaching my Foxpro will stop and look at us when we move our rifle to get ready for the shot.

They are not very concerned with movement that is less than 2 feet tall as long as they don't see shiny hands, faces, rile or shotgun barrels.

IMG_2702 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on Flickr
I took the above picture while my son and I were laying prone next to each other about 50 yards from my Foxpro. When my son moved his rifle to get on the running coyote the coyote saw the movement and stopped to look at us.

More often than not we have the coyotes stop to check us out when we are laying prone and move our rifles to get ready for the shot.
 
I do wear gloves .Not meaning to argue with derbyacresbob above as I am sure he is a great coyote hunter,we do agree with each other I think that movement is a big deal.Breaking up your outline is the most important thing besides wind to me,that being said we do not all hunt the same type of terrain so how I do things could very well suck in a different terrain than what I typically hunt.Bottom line is I hope everybody has a great time out there chasing them and are successful.By all means I am not anti camo ,wear it if you like,Kelly Jackson may be the most respected coyote hunter in Okla and have seen him hunting on Foxpro TV in tan or beige colored clothes killing coyotes,but he always has something behind him breaking his outline.
 
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Where I hunt, if a coyote hears you, it's gone. If it sees you, its gone. If it smells you, on a light steady wind it's gone. Gusty shifting winds, young coyote may hang around trying to pinpoint you. If my partner can hear me walking(usually snow cover) at 50 yards, coyote can hear me from 200-300 yards. Use the wind and cover for at least approaching and calling. Good spots I will sneak out also, as at times coyote will not get up and respond if already bedded down. Not to many coyote bed down hungry, they are pretty good at eating regularly. Even in snow and cold.
 
Thanks for the advice all of you. I think I'll forget about covering my scent and then just try and work on the movement and breaking the skyline. We've been trying to find spots where we can put some sagebrush in between torso and coyote so from what people have said that should be good enough for now.
I'll probably take my wife out and she'll do everything I say we should do since she has no preconceptions of what to expect. Then I can see who ends up more successful!
 
One thing I forgot to talk about is why I think camo hasn't had a big part in the coyotes I've killed. I always break up my outline by tucking up against brush. If I can sit in a shadow I do as well. I always try to sit with the sun at my back when at all possible. If you don't your face and hands will shine as mentioned. I always wear gloves though but I know of a few times when coyotes hung up because they saw my face shining in the sun. If I'm wearing a hoodie, which most of the time I am I flip it up to shade my face a little bit. I have a beard so I think that probably helps somewhat as well. But mostly I try to make stands based off of wind direction and where the sun is. If the sun is working against a coyote you're a little more camouflaged at that point.

Using brush to break up your outline is a good idea but personally I don't care to have very much of it between me and the coyote. Because one of two things seem to happen. One it's hard to see them right away at times and two they seem to stop behind anything and everything if there's anything between you and them. I've had more than one or two get away because I wasn't very picky about how much cover was in front of me. Poor planning on my part.

Coyotes use the landscape to their advantage as well.
 
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Good tips and advice above,was not very clear about breaking up outline as you need structure behind you not in front to break up outline.Does not seem to take a much of anything behind,I like grown up fence rows.I hunt farm fields in Kansas some as well as pasture land and hay fields in Okla.Not claiming to be an expert here just passing along what seems to work pretty good in my neck of the country.
 
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Some of the areas I hunt in there is no brush, rocks or junipers to sit in front of. Laying down prone with a rifle or laying down against a pillow on my back with a shotgun works very good. The coyotes can see my outline but they are not concerned with a object that is less than 2 feet tall.

IMG_8757 by [/url], on Flickr
I shot the above coyote with my shotgun on ground with no cover at all. I was laying on my pillow ramp about 15 yards from my Foxpro. My hunting buddy jp7mag was about 60 yards behind me and above me with his rifle. On most of our coyote calling stands I use a shotgun and jp7mag uses a rifle.

[url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/156463377@N08/4aqS8u t=_blank]IMG_9372 by [/url], on Flickr
In the above picture you can see my shotgun leaning on my adjustable pillow ramp that I use to take coyotes in open country with no cover.

[url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/156463377@N08/2d78J3 t=_blank]IMG_9110 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on Flickr
Last season the 17 year old young man in the above picture killed two coyotes that ran right up on him while he way laying about 15 yards from my Foxpro. I was laying prone with a rifle about 50 yards back behind him and above him so I got to watch this pair of coyotes run right up to him. It was pretty cool to see him kill that double on his first morning of calling coyotes.
 
Bet it is really neat hunting that country Bob is in,can see them forever coming.Cannot get prone where I hunt except maybe a few places I hunt in Kansas.Amazes me how coyotes make a pretty good living in all parts of our nation and all the different terrains they live in.Gonna have to get somewhere and hunt the wide open country sometime.Great pics you have there Bob
 
Yes Terry, we do get to see them coming from a long ways off pretty often. But quite often when laying down close to the Foxpro I will hear their feet hitting the ground before I see them. In the places we think we will see them a half mile away sometimes we don't see them until they are 50 yards away. LOL

The country we hunt in is pretty cool. It can be flat ground and wide open with no cover and one mile away be very steep mountains with trees, brush and rocks.

IMG_9210 by [/url], on Flickr
[url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/156463377@N08/j8B151 t=_blank]IMG_9191 by [/url], on Flickr
The coyote in the above two pictures is the same coyote. This is the same young man on his first coyote hunt. We had the sun at our backs with a breeze in our face and we could only see about 40 yards away and then it dropped off very steep for about 1,000 yards or more. We were both sitting in the shade of big junipers. Camo would not have been needed on this stand because we were in dark shade and the coyote had the sun in his eyes.

[url=https://www.flickr.com/gp/156463377@N08/YHE63r t=_blank]IMG_9138 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/156463377@N08/, on Flickr
When calling with a shotgun and you want the coyotes as close as you can get, the camo that blends in good with the terrain that you are hunting will get you more coyotes than you will get without good camo, especially on your face and hands.
 
Originally Posted By: derbyacresbob But quite often when laying down close to the Foxpro I will hear their feet hitting the ground before I see them.


man, you don't know how much i miss hearing a coyotes feet on the ground before ever seeing them. there once was a time, but sadly no more.

take care of your ears boys and girls.
 
Great advice already given. Coyote calling is very challenging. It is an accomplishment to get a coyote to come in to your calling. It is even more difficult to actually kill the coyote that comes in.

Your friend really needs to be quite and have minimal movement when calling coyotes. I believe camouflage helps in some situations but it is a much lower priority than movement, noise or scent.

I believe selecting a stand is one of the most critical parts of calling coyotes.

This is a set of guidelines I consider when selecting a stand location.
#1 Call an area that has coyotes. Coyotes are almost everywhere but some areas have more coyotes than others.
#2 Select a location that minimizes the risk of the coyote smelling me before I can shoot it. A coyote will have no problem smelling you at 300 yards or even 600 yards. I'll often set up with either the wind in my face or a crosswind but occasionally set up with the wind at my back.
#3 I prefer to have the sun at my back and have brush, at tree or something directly behind me to break up my outline. Do not set up on the skyline unless you have something behind you that completely breaks up your routine.
#4 Sit in the shade when possible. It is much more difficult for a coyote to spot you when you are in the shade. I often don't bother to put on gloves or a face mask when I'm in a good shady spot.
#5 Get elevation when at all possible to improve my view so I can more easily spot an approaching coyote. Sometimes the bottom of a little valley offers a good view but in most situations, higher elevation will improve my view.
#6 Select a stand location and an approach that I can slip into with minimal risk of Coyotes are less likely to see, smell or hear me moving into the stand.
#6 Call a stand at the appropriate time. Mornings and evenings are typically best but there are exceptions to this, especially when it is really cold. On a warmer day, coyotes are often less responsive to a call in the afternoon than they are early morning.

I'm sure I left a bunch of stuff out. You can learn a lot by hanging out on peditormasters, reading a book about coyotes, watching videos of guys calling coyotes, etc. Going out with someone who is more experience will also shorten your learning curve.
 
Lot's of good information from these guys.

What matters: the wind. Coyotes always try to get downwind, so don't set up with a brushy ravine 100yds downwind of you

What doesn't matter: cover scent. You can fool their eyes, you can fool their ears, but, IMHO, you can never, never, fool the nose!

This site has many hours of reading great advice, from excellent coyote hunters, from the Eastern States to the Western States.
 
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