243 Blues

pyscodog

Active member
A couple of months ago, I bought a NIB SS Weatherby Vanguard II in 243 Win, 10 twist. I put a Leupold VX III 4.5-14 in Leupold rings and bases and replaced the plastic stock with a B&C with aluminum bedding block. Then did a trigger job. The only thing I did that I am wondering if maybe I shouldn't have is ground out the speed bump in the barrel channel. So far, 120ish rounds later, and a ton of different bullet weights and powders charges, I can't get what I call decent groups. It is a sporter barrel and heats up super quick in todays heat, but it is struggling to get one inch groups at 100 yards. And these are three shot groups. Today useing IMR 4320 and an 80 Blitz, I got one group that might be 7/8. Just feel like this rifle should shoot a little better. Maybe I'm expecting to much. What do you folks think?
 
YES it most certainly should shoot better than that.
Have you tried and Barnes bullets, we have great success with them in any of our 4 243's. DONT be afraid to get them going FAST. We have much better groups with any of the offerings we try but we find the very upper loads shoot better.
 
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I could fill this page with all I've tried. Yep, Barnes bullets as well, Light bullets and up to 88 grain bullets. With the 10 twist, not sure just how heavy I can go. I haven't messed with primers or seating depth because I haven't found anything that shot well enough to try more than once. I've tried a variety of powders to the point of trying some not even for the 6MM. Most always 4-5 different charge weights as well. I've had several Weatherby/Howa rifles and all shot good and were easy to work loads for. This one is testing my metal. I'm contemplating cutting the barrel to 20" and a new crown. What do I have to loose other than a little velocity? If that doesn't work then maybe a new barrel. I know some will say 1 inch groups are good enough.....not me.
 
Originally Posted By: K22I would re-bed it. Maybe install some pillars.
Try some Hornady 100gr. sp flat base bullets with RL 26.

This is a very good idea.
 
On my vanguard 243 I shot it with the factory stock and it shot good. I put an HS sported stock on that free floated the barrel and it has the bedding alignment screws for the recoil lug. It tightened the groups up quite a bit dropping it in the new stock. Did it shoot good with the pressure pad on it or did you ever try it?
 
Originally Posted By: GCDid you shoot it before removing the "speed bump?"

My guess is no.
laugh.gif
 
Originally Posted By: GCDid you shoot it before removing the "speed bump?"

Just enough to get the scope on paper and close to zeroed.

I been thinking of putting in back in the plastic stock and see how it shoots. Probably should have done that some time ago.



"Speed Bump" aka pressure point. A term by buddy uses and it stuck in my head.
 
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Originally Posted By: pyscodogOriginally Posted By: GCDid you shoot it before removing the "speed bump?"

Just enough to get the scope on paper and close to zeroed.

I been thinking of putting in back in the plastic stock and see how it shoots. Probably should have done that some time ago.

"Speed Bump" aka pressure point. A term by buddy uses and it stuck in my head.


Light-weight barrels are "hit and miss" when floated. If done properly and not done merely for the sake of aligning the barrel in the barrel channel of the stock, "speed bumps" near the front end of a stock can add stability to a lightweight barrel.



 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: pyscodogOriginally Posted By: GCDid you shoot it before removing the "speed bump?"

Just enough to get the scope on paper and close to zeroed.

I been thinking of putting in back in the plastic stock and see how it shoots. Probably should have done that some time ago.

"Speed Bump" aka pressure point. A term by buddy uses and it stuck in my head.


Light-weight barrels are "hit and miss" when floated. If done properly and not done merely for the sake of aligning the barrel in the barrel channel of the stock, "speed bumps" near the front end of a stock can add stability to a lightweight barrel.





What Winny said...
 
Well, not that it makes it any better but its nice to know I'm not alone. After a quick Google search, seems another guy with a Vanguard and a B&C stock made the same mistake I did by grinding out the pressure point on his stock and got the same results. He used tape to make a temporary pressure point and his rifle started grouping. So I did basically the same process using blue masking tape and took the free float out of the barrel. I need to shoot it and see if I added enough pressure to the barrel. If it makes a difference I can use Marine Tex and put the pressure pad back in the barrel channel.

I made this same mistake on a Ruger 77 rimfire years ago. Guess I didn't learn much from back then. Hopefully this fix's my accuracy problem.
 
This past year I bought a Tikka T3X Super Lite in 243 Win. I knew I wanted to shoot the Barnes 80 gr TTSX bullet in it so before beginning to work up a load I bought a box of Barnes Vor-Tex with the same bullet to see how it shot. Right out of the box it shot 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards. Confirming the rifle would shoot I set out to work up my load.

At the end of the day, I worked up a load using IMR 4064 that is shooting 3378 fps and is also 1/2 inch MOA so I am really happy with it. Sometimes leaving a rifle stock and seeing if it will shoot right out of the box and not thinking we can improve upon it is the best thing to do. I hope you get it to shoot the way you want it to.
 
I can't say 100% for sure but I more than likely did shoot the rifle in the B&C stock with the pressure point and wasn't happy with the groups or I would have left it alone. I have a Ruger 77 220 Swift a Sako in 06 and a Tikka in 270 and none of those have had the barrel channel opened up and all shoot good. I am going to shoot the Vanguard again now that I have wrapped the barrel and made a temporary pressure point. If it doesn't help any, I may send it to Douglas for a better barrel with a shorter length and slightly heavier contour.
 
Originally Posted By: WyoBullThis past year I bought a Tikka T3X Super Lite in 243 Win. I knew I wanted to shoot the Barnes 80 gr TTSX bullet in it so before beginning to work up a load I bought a box of Barnes Vor-Tex with the same bullet to see how it shot. Right out of the box it shot 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards. Confirming the rifle would shoot I set out to work up my load.

At the end of the day, I worked up a load using IMR 4064 that is shooting 3378 fps and is also 1/2 inch MOA so I am really happy with it. Sometimes leaving a rifle stock and seeing if it will shoot right out of the box and not thinking we can improve upon it is the best thing to do. I hope you get it to shoot the way you want it to.

Probably didn't hurt that it was a Tikka. Those things just seem to always shoot extremely well right out of the box. I've borescoped countless rifles with factory barrels and it's no wonder Tikka's shoot so well. Their barrels are easily the best looking factory barrel I've ever scoped.
 
Here's my plan.....load 12 rounds with the load that has shot the best. Three rounds to foul the barrel, three with the B&C with the temporary pressure pad, three with out the pad in the B&C and then three in the plastic factory stock. Maybe this will give me some idea as to where to start. I don't know what else to do. If they all suck, maybe a new barrel.
 
Well my plan went to he11 in a hand basket. Groups were like patterns. The load that shot decent was terrible today. I did go out with a clean barrel and fired two rounds to foul. All groups were over 2 inchs plus. Very disturbing as to whats going on. I torqued the stocks to 50 inch pounds and I know everything is tight and the scope is good. Why my results were so much different with the same load has me baffled. Nothing like a good challenge to keep you busy. I will figure this rifle out or wear it out trying.
 
Are the action screws or scope base screws bottoming out?
If not, rebed, with pillars.
You can try loosening the action screws up to 35" lbs and see what changes, but it sounds to me like a bad bedding job.
 
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