No NFA paperwork needed in Texas Sept. 1, 2021

Originally Posted By: hydehunterplease correct me if I am wrong ( I hope not ) but is it true that the only law enforcement that can ask for your stamp or about your suppressor is the ATF or Treasury officer and that police, sheriff or game wardens are not allowed to do so. thanks Jim

It would depend on state law.

Suppressors in Florida are legal, so as a Deputy I'd have no lawful reason to ask for a Form 1 or Form 4.

However, SBR's by state statute are illegal per se, unless registered, therefore, on face value the SBR is presumed to be unlawful until the person in possession shows it meets the statutory exemption.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.Onehowever they (leo, game warden, etc) can detain you until such an authority presents itself -


I can't detain someone on a law I can't enforce.
 
Originally Posted By: Bowhntr6ptOriginally Posted By: hydehunterplease correct me if I am wrong ( I hope not ) but is it true that the only law enforcement that can ask for your stamp or about your suppressor is the ATF or Treasury officer and that police, sheriff or game wardens are not allowed to do so. thanks Jim

It would depend on state law.

Suppressors in Florida are legal, so as a Deputy I'd have no lawful reason to ask for a Form 1 or Form 4.

However, SBR's by state statute are illegal per se, unless registered, therefore, on face value the SBR is presumed to be unlawful until the person in possession shows it meets the statutory exemption.



those two sentences... they just dont seem to add up.

both SBR's and suppressors require registry in the NFA - to be legal to posses in the united states - if you can presume that a SBR is unlawful until the person in posession shows it meets the statutory federal registration requirements to meet legality, you'd have to in theory follow the same practice for suppressors.

 
Originally Posted By: Bowhntr6ptOriginally Posted By: Plant.Onehowever they (leo, game warden, etc) can detain you until such an authority presents itself -


I can't detain someone on a law I can't enforce.

lets go back to the example given though - if you're at the part of a LEO interaction where someone is refusing to provide you with federal NFA registration paperwork due to it being classified as a tax document - its probably safe to assume that in about 98% of situations you at that point as the responding LEO have legal right to detain said individual until the proper authorities can be acquired to verify that information for you.

again - i'm not suggesting that police have the rights to run around screaming "Let me see your papers" every time they come across someone in posession of a NFA item.

just that generally speaking once you get to the point of being able to reasonable request those kind of documents be produced - ie: you have some kind of porbable cause the person shouldnt be in posession of the item or that its not registered (a home made suppressor without any engravings, or engravings that are missing something, etc) - simply having the individual try to play a trump card of "sorry tax document, pound sand" isnt going to give them the right to just walk away from the circumstances.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: Bowhntr6ptOriginally Posted By: hydehunterplease correct me if I am wrong ( I hope not ) but is it true that the only law enforcement that can ask for your stamp or about your suppressor is the ATF or Treasury officer and that police, sheriff or game wardens are not allowed to do so. thanks Jim

It would depend on state law.

Suppressors in Florida are legal, so as a Deputy I'd have no lawful reason to ask for a Form 1 or Form 4.

However, SBR's by state statute are illegal per se, unless registered, therefore, on face value the SBR is presumed to be unlawful until the person in possession shows it meets the statutory exemption.



those two sentences... they just dont seem to add up.

both SBR's and suppressors require registry in the NFA - to be legal to posses in the united states - if you can presume that a SBR is unlawful until the person in posession shows it meets the statutory federal registration requirements to meet legality, you'd have to in theory follow the same practice for suppressors.



You simply don't understand law... as a local LEO I can't enforce Federal law no more than I can enforce any other states' laws.

I explained it quite clearly... so once again... Florida has no statutory law governing suppressors, so at the state enforcement level, which is the only authority I have, I have no authority regarding suppressors. Suppressors are not prohibited by state law thus are not presumed to be illegal. Enforcing the Federal law aspects is beyond my authority and scope of my duties.

Florida does have a statutory prohibition against SBR's, see FSS 790.221, with an exception for those SBR's and machine guns possessed under the provisions of Federal law. Therefore, on face value, SBR's and MG's are presumed to be illegal per se, thus giving me lawful authority to detain and inquire to see if Subsection (3) of FSS 790.21 applies.

Hope this clears it up.
 
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Cherokeetracker,

Thanks for the link. It answers some of the questions I had. Looks like solvent traps that were manufactured out of state and then converted into a suppressor in Texas would not be legal.
 
Originally Posted By: Bowhntr6pt

You simply don't understand law... as a local LEO I can't enforce Federal law no more than I can enforce any other states' laws.

I explained it quite clearly... so once again... Florida has no statutory law governing suppressors, so at the state enforcement level, which is the only authority I have, I have no authority regarding suppressors. Suppressors are not prohibited by state law thus are not presumed to be illegal. Enforcing the Federal law aspects is beyond my authority and scope of my duties.

Florida does have a statutory prohibition against SBR's, see FSS 790.221, with an exception for those SBR's and machine guns possessed under the provisions of Federal law. Therefore, on face value, SBR's and MG's are presumed to be illegal per se, thus giving me lawful authority to detain and inquire to see if Subsection (3) of FSS 790.21 applies.

Hope this clears it up.


yes it did clear it up. thank you for the extended explanation.
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.Onethey can ask for it and because its a tax stamp you can legally refuse to show it to anyone but an IRS or BATFE agent.

however they (leo, game warden, etc) can detain you until such an authority presents itself - at your request mind you because you refused to produce legal paperwork showing your right to possess a heavily restricted item - and you'd have no one to blame but yourself for said delay.

so truly, its one of those situations that fall under "just because you can, should you?" and that depends just how big of a nitpicking fight you wanna get into that day. is it really something thats worth ruining your hunting or range trip just to have a urination competition over? because if you wanna push back like that, its something they can easily do make your life [beeep] for that period when you're supposed to be out enjoying yourself.

im not here to tell anyone how to live their best life and all that, just that sometimes the best way to say [beeep] with a smile is to give them what they wanna see and be on with your day.



In Texas, Suppressor's are legal to possess. The NFA is a Federal jurisdiction, not a State, County, or Local.
In all the years that I've owned Suppressor's and Full Auto weapon's, I've been asked twice by County and Local LEO's to see my Tax Stamp's. I refused both times, and instructed them to contact their superior's to learn that they can't ask to see my Federal Tax document's.

Now of coarse, a lot depends on your attitude and tone of voice when speaking to a LEO. If you go off on them, then yes, you may well get detained by them over nothing. Most LEO's don't take the time to actually know all the laws, just the areas that serve them in their daily job areas.
I have shown my stamps to a Texas State Game Warden. Not that I had to, but I have a very high respect for the job they do, and in Texas, they have more legal authority than any other LEO's.
The TPWD legalized the use of suppressor's for hunting several years ago, so if a Game Warden ask to see my stamps while I'm hunting, I don't have an issue with it. It's really no different than them wanting to see your hunting license with a Federal Duck tax stamp on it.
 
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