Varmint and Long Range Target Round

S

Scrumbag

New member
Hi folks,

In my quest to develop a "suite" of loads for my 1:9 twist 223 Rem bolt action, I am looking for a longer range target load and a varmint load.

I was reading around the internet (always a dangerous idea) and I wondered if I could use the same bullet for both?

So I have 2 questions:

1) Has anyone used the 60gr Sierra TMK for varmints and how's you find it?
2) Has anyone used the 60gr Nosler Varmint Ballistic tips for longer range shooting?

Follow up question: Does anyone have any other suggestions?

My rifle is a CZ527 and handles 5.56 NATO pressues fine so I would think I would use Ramshot TAC or Exterminator so should be able to run them ~3,100 out of the 22" bbl.

ATB,

Scrummy
 
Scrummy, what is your definition of Long range. Talking to a gentleman in italy a little while back revealed that long range across the pond isn't necessarily the same as here in the US.

That said, I have a mini-mauser in .223 Rem with a 1:9 twist 26" Douglas barrel. I have found 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint (boat tail design) to shoot extremely well out of it with Benchmark powder. Using the turrets to dial, I have made one shot kills out to 400 yards on ground hogs with it. Havent tried to stretch it much past that. I used to use H335 powder as well which gives a little more speed but less temperature stability in hard temp swings. Pictures below.

heEwxMP.jpg

53e9zOT.jpg


I currently use the 60 gr VMAX behind a max charge of H335 in a few ARs but dont have enough experience shooting at longer ranges with those to weigh in. I would not feel handicapped doing so, however the .223 starts to really drop past 400 yards. For what it is worth that load above shoots right at 3000 fps at 50 degrees F.

If it were me, I would try both projectiles and see what it likes. I have never had a Nosler BT or Sierra bullet not shoot well, just depends on what the gun likes more.

Regarding match bullets on varmints, they do work although they dont always anchor them at longer range. With the BT, you can afford to have a mid body shot at 300 or 400 yards and still anchor them right there. I have used 52 gr BTHP from Sierra before and it shot well, but the BT's shot a little better. I have also used Nosler Custom Competitions in an 18" AR with good results, within a couple hundred yards, you can hit a groundhog with just about any bullet and it will do the job fine. Over 200 is where I start to see more of a difference there but again, I would not feel handicapped taking a shot over 200 with a match bullet especially a tipped match bullet. Hope this helps a little
 
Originally Posted By: Zastava223remScrummy, what is your definition of Long range. Talking to a gentleman in italy a little while back revealed that long range across the pond isn't necessarily the same as here in the US.

That said, I have a mini-mauser in .223 Rem with a 1:9 twist 26" Douglas barrel. I have found 55 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint (boat tail design) to shoot extremely well out of it with Benchmark powder. Using the turrets to dial, I have made one shot kills out to 400 yards on ground hogs with it. Havent tried to stretch it much past that. I used to use H335 powder as well which gives a little more speed but less temperature stability in hard temp swings. Pictures below.

heEwxMP.jpg

53e9zOT.jpg


I currently use the 60 gr VMAX behind a max charge of H335 in a few ARs but dont have enough experience shooting at longer ranges with those to weigh in. I would not feel handicapped doing so, however the .223 starts to really drop past 400 yards. For what it is worth that load above shoots right at 3000 fps at 50 degrees F.

If it were me, I would try both projectiles and see what it likes. I have never had a Nosler BT or Sierra bullet not shoot well, just depends on what the gun likes more.

Regarding match bullets on varmints, they do work although they dont always anchor them at longer range. With the BT, you can afford to have a mid body shot at 300 or 400 yards and still anchor them right there. I have used 52 gr BTHP from Sierra before and it shot well, but the BT's shot a little better. I have also used Nosler Custom Competitions in an 18" AR with good results, within a couple hundred yards, you can hit a groundhog with just about any bullet and it will do the job fine. Over 200 is where I start to see more of a difference there but again, I would not feel handicapped taking a shot over 200 with a match bullet especially a tipped match bullet. Hope this helps a little

Interesting set up and thank you! My 527 is a form of mini-Mauser I suppose. Guess more loading and shooting required. Oh shucks
wink.gif
 
I have killed prairie dogs at over 600 yards (longest being 705) with a .223 AI with a 1/14" twist shooting 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. Not an ideal setup for "outchonder" shooting but that's what I had on my bench when the targets presented themselves so that's what I used. No blowups at that range but no runners either. Good enough for me.
 
Try Nosler BT's and Nosler Varmagedon's at the 55-60 grain region and see how they shoot. For target try out the Nosler RDF in 70 grain.

The Varmagedon and the Hornady V-max have less of a chance of "penciling through" the farther out you go. To a point....

The Sierra 69 grain Match King is also excellent for target.

I have noticed animals drop in their tracks when shot at closer ranges. The farther out i shoot, the more they run. My dog always finds them though...

IMO with 223 Rem, high velocity at closer ranges is the ticket. A 22-250 has always been a dream of mine.
 
Originally Posted By: RustydustI have killed prairie dogs at over 600 yards (longest being 705) with a .223 AI with a 1/14" twist shooting 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. Not an ideal setup for "outchonder" shooting but that's what I had on my bench when the targets presented themselves so that's what I used. No blowups at that range but no runners either. Good enough for me.

And considering my ole buddy R-Dee is four days older than dirt, blind in one eye and can't see out of the other, that's pretty darn fine chootin and certainly good enough for me too!
thumbup.gif
 
Why stop at 60gr? That 1:9 twist should stabilize 75gr maybe 77s. Any wind at all really affects a 223/556, heavier should help buck the wind especially between 300 to 600. Your only distance limit is at what point your bullet comes back thru the speed of sound.

So you’re rifle is chambered in 223, or a 5.56?
 
Originally Posted By: ScrumbagOriginally Posted By: DoubleUpDefine long range?

For .223 Rem I think 600 is a fairly long way.

Indeed!

Three 44s
 
Compromise with relatively high BC, stability in a 1:9 twist barrel and fast enough for point and shoot within 200 yds for classical varminting

Scrummy
 
Originally Posted By: ScrumbagOriginally Posted By: DoubleUpDefine long range?

For .223 Rem I think 600 is a fairly long way.

In the Highpower Game 600yds is usually considered midrange (but yes your NOT wrong 600 is stretching the 223 legs).

And your objectives are actually easy to get to (depending on your expectations in Highpower 1 MOA is the expectation).
When I was in the Service (5.56mm chamber, which allowed for more pressure, 1-7 twist) we shot those ranges all the time when in compitetion (not for qualifaction).

If I may be so bold as to suggest a prospect load it is the 69gr SMK seated mag length, coupled with around 24ish grs of Varget, should net you around 2700 fps. The 62gr Gameking can be subbed, just add a gr of varget, as I suspect the 69gr SMK will be iffy for your twist on stability. Red line for that powder/bullet combo should be 26.0 grs or so for both suggested bullets.
RL15 is close to Varget in the 223 chamber and can be developed on as well

If I was determining this load i'd do all my accuracy verifaction testing at the 600 yd line what perfoms well at 100 yds may shoot like crap at 600.

This is a standard Service Rifle load so I feel comfortable suggesting it. Now to find the exact node for your barrel you may have to play up or down. As I must confess I did not pay attention to your exact rifle ie Semi versus Bolt gun.

You may have a wider adjustment range for a bolt gun especially if the chamber has been throated.

Just ran the Numbers (SG factor) based on the 1-9 twist yeah the 69gr SMK (0.982" length) is iffy the SG comes out at 1.272, ideal is about 1.4 but that is paper not real world you could shoot it and see for fact. the 62gr and 63gr Sierria will put you at approx 2.4 SG again that is paper calculation . Another point is the length is what actually determins stability so if one locates a 69gr FLAT base versus the BT (the speer 70gr FB will deliver a SG of 2.263, the length is 0.808" vs the SMK of 0.982") the length is shorter which will bring you into your sweet spot for stability.


reality is everything is a guess till the trigger is pulled

just for giggles i calculated this for you using the 69gr SMK at 2700fps, using 200 ft above sealevel I also used 250 yards as the zero point hope this help as a start point your actual data will override this projection.

Calculated Table
Range Drop Velocity
(yd) (in) (MOA) (ft/s)
100 3.6 3.5 2447.8
200 2.9 1.4 2201.6
300 -4.9 -1.6 1970.5
400 -21.8 -5.2 1752.1
500 -50.1 -9.6 1545.0
600 -93.1 -14.8 1349.5

this load should stay supersonic all the way to your inteded max range.


P.S. I have noticed tha Zevesta223 has some very good advice /data as well in just about every post dealing with the 1-9 twisted 223. Which is not a twist i use, I generally play with 1-12 (Home built with Satern barrel for varmint hunting), 1-8 (rock river arms receivers, giellise triggers, NRA Highpower build with Krieger barrel .920" at muzzle x 24"), 1-7 (colt M4 style with 16" bbl). The 1-12" is my favorite because i like shooting the cheap lightweights
 
Last edited:
One of the most fun scopes I've owned but not made any more is the Nikon P223. The top turrent is 100 to 600 yds based on a 55 grain bullet at 3240. Shooting a 9 twist 22 inch savage I made a 55 grain v max load at 3250. In low wind the v max hit consistently at 600 yds on steel. Something to play around with and see what works best.
 
give the 69gr hornady HPBT a run... my 7 twist loves them (dirty cloverleaf @ 100) and my 9 twist shoots them respectably as well (~½ moa @ 100). i havent tried to stretch either of the 69's out to distance, because my goal was the 75's in the 7 twist... so this was a data collection series only... but they shot great!

if you've got a Wylde chamber...might be worth giving the 75gr hpbt a try as well... my 7 twist load (dirty cloverleafs at 100 yds) shoots about half inch in my buddy's 9 twist. i think he about pee'd himself a lil when he tested them out and almost had em touchin. you might be pleasantly supprised.

ive stretched these out to a lil over 250 and they hold well... at 185yds we were dusting charcoal briquete's with boring regularity with them just leaning up against a barn post. hopefully well get a chance this summer to really run them out.. might have access to a 700 yd range if things go well *fingers crossed*
 
Originally Posted By: Plant.Onegive the 69gr hornady HPBT a run... my 7 twist loves them (dirty cloverleaf @ 100) and my 9 twist shoots them respectably as well (~½ moa @ 100). i havent tried to stretch either of the 69's out to distance, because my goal was the 75's in the 7 twist... so this was a data collection series only... but they shot great!

if you've got a Wylde chamber...might be worth giving the 75gr hpbt a try as well... my 7 twist load (dirty cloverleafs at 100 yds) shoots about half inch in my buddy's 9 twist. i think he about pee'd himself a lil when he tested them out and almost had em touchin. you might be pleasantly supprised.

ive stretched these out to a lil over 250 and they hold well... at 185yds we were dusting charcoal briquete's with boring regularity with them just leaning up against a barn post. hopefully well get a chance this summer to really run them out.. might have access to a 700 yd range if things go well *fingers crossed*

Thanks for that. The problem is, I tend to shoot at sub 15C temps, sub 200ft altitude and it would be surprising if the humidity is less than 80%... So I tend to favour caution in stability calcs.

Scrummy
 
Back
Top