I have mostly RCBS dies but at the time could only find Lee for my 7x57 Mauser. The cases were going in pretty tight with a liberal amount of One shot that I usually use. I had to resort to some old Lyman lube to size. The problem now is I cant get the reloads to chamber no matter where the bullet is seated. The cases are PPU that I bought factory loaded and shot with this rifle. All cases are the proper length 2.225-2.230. Thanks in advance
Lee die issue
- Thread starter wileC
- Start date
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
Did you check case fit before bullet seating? If cases fit before seating, make sure you followed the seating die setup instructions. You may have been crimping while seating, this can expand the case at the body/shoulder junction making chambering finished load tight-to impossible. Hope you had a Lee shell holder, can have issues mixing brands. Remember no lube on shoulders.
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Plant.One
Well-known member
take a sharpie and blacken the whole case and bullet of one of the ones that wont chamber and do an attempted chambering. or likewise with just an empty peice of brass.
look for rub marks when you remove it - it may give you an idea of where your loads are out of spec
of course you can grab a pair of calipers and do some measurements at places like right behind the shoulder, the OD of the neck, back at the case web, etc etc.
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/201...osting-Copy.pdf
(pg 55 of the pdf, shows as page 43 of the "book")
are they coming out of the die really hard too? im almost wondering if the expander isnt pulling the neck/shoulder forward on you when you're bringing the ram down and extracting the brass from the die.
do you have access to a headspace gauge like this to check that measurement?
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-HK66-Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Gauge/dp/B000PD5VN8
the fact that a sized empty case isnt chambering is a bit of a concern for sure.
look for rub marks when you remove it - it may give you an idea of where your loads are out of spec
of course you can grab a pair of calipers and do some measurements at places like right behind the shoulder, the OD of the neck, back at the case web, etc etc.
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/201...osting-Copy.pdf
(pg 55 of the pdf, shows as page 43 of the "book")
are they coming out of the die really hard too? im almost wondering if the expander isnt pulling the neck/shoulder forward on you when you're bringing the ram down and extracting the brass from the die.
do you have access to a headspace gauge like this to check that measurement?
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-HK66-Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Gauge/dp/B000PD5VN8
the fact that a sized empty case isnt chambering is a bit of a concern for sure.
spotstalkshoot
Well-known member
Yes wondering if you checked sized brass in rifle before reloading. So you haven't reloaded the sized brass because it wouldn't chamber? Did the fired brass(before sizing) chamber properly? If fired cold brass chambers, but your sized brass doesn't you will have to black marker a sized case and find where the binding is happening. Where the contact is will tell you the problem with the die setup.
204 AR
Well-known member
From your statement on how hard it's sizing, I'd guess it's squeezing it down enough. When it does this the brass flows forward, perhaps you aren't bumping the shoulder enough? Take a case that won't chamber and turn the die down 1/8 revolution at a time and resize, then try chambering, repeat until the case chambers.
Bear
New member
I had a die somewhat like the and the expander button was really rough so I sanded it with fine emery cloth and a drill to spin it,just needed to take the edge off the cross hatching and it stopped stretching the shoulder. Take very little off at a time so as to not get button undersize.
Fat Albert
New member
wileC; When you say you tried the cases after you sized them and they would not chamber. Are you saying the whole case would not go into the chamber or that the case went in and the bolt would not close? If that is the fact that the bolt will not close, then it is because the chamber is oversized and the cases are expanding to fill the chamber.(7x57-- old millitary rifle? that was not made to uses reloaded ammo. When you full size the cases back to the SAMMI specs the shoulder of the case is pushed forward and that is why the bolt will not close. If you are making contact with the shell holder and bottom of die and it will not close then the chamber is Way-Way oversized and just about the only thing that you can do is only neck size the cases with a neck sizeing die and hope that will work. If you have any of the unsized casess that were fired in your rifle and they fit then that is the problem. PS: If it is because of the chamber. any cases that you have tried to full lenght are "Toast" and you should uses new brass.
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From what I'm seeing it is quite simply not bumping the shoulders back enough. If the die at MAX sizing is not doing that then one can cut the shell holder or shorten the die body to get more movement in the shoulder. The first is easier and cheaper and preferable IMHO. If you have a press with a rotating shell holder the die will need to be trimmed back. An oversize cut chamber has nothing to do with this issue if my experience over the past 45 years counts for anything.
Greg
Greg
Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterFrom what I'm seeing it is quite simply not bumping the shoulders back enough. If the die at MAX sizing is not doing that then one can cut the shell holder or shorten the die body to get more movement in the shoulder. The first is easier and cheaper and preferable IMHO. If you have a press with a rotating shell holder the die will need to be trimmed back. An oversize cut chamber has nothing to do with this issue if my experience over the past 45 years counts for anything.
Greg
how is it a die not bumping the shoulder enough issue when the cases were fired from the gun that they're being resized for?
that should mean they're fire formed to his chamber and its only AFTER doing through the die that there's a problem - at least thats how i read it.
or does the shoulder come forward during the body sizing part of the process and then get moved back by the shoulder portion of the die?
i promise i'm not trolling ya greg, i'm trying to make sure i understand the order of change during the sizing better
Greg
how is it a die not bumping the shoulder enough issue when the cases were fired from the gun that they're being resized for?
that should mean they're fire formed to his chamber and its only AFTER doing through the die that there's a problem - at least thats how i read it.
or does the shoulder come forward during the body sizing part of the process and then get moved back by the shoulder portion of the die?
i promise i'm not trolling ya greg, i'm trying to make sure i understand the order of change during the sizing better
204 AR
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: GLShooterFrom what I'm seeing it is quite simply not bumping the shoulders back enough. If the die at MAX sizing is not doing that then one can cut the shell holder or shorten the die body to get more movement in the shoulder. The first is easier and cheaper and preferable IMHO. If you have a press with a rotating shell holder the die will need to be trimmed back. An oversize cut chamber has nothing to do with this issue if my experience over the past 45 years counts for anything.
Greg
or does the shoulder come forward during the body sizing part of the process and then get moved back by the shoulder portion of the die?
This in my opinion, from what was written in that first post, is exactly what's going on. Try it sometime, measure a shoulder, then resize with the die backed off 1/2 turn from where you normally have it set, and measure again. Not always, and it depends on your chamber dimensions compared to your die dimensions to a degree, but a lot of the time the shoulder is squished forward just a tad until the die pushes it back.
But heck, who knows it looks like the op was one and done on this thread.
Greg
or does the shoulder come forward during the body sizing part of the process and then get moved back by the shoulder portion of the die?
This in my opinion, from what was written in that first post, is exactly what's going on. Try it sometime, measure a shoulder, then resize with the die backed off 1/2 turn from where you normally have it set, and measure again. Not always, and it depends on your chamber dimensions compared to your die dimensions to a degree, but a lot of the time the shoulder is squished forward just a tad until the die pushes it back.
But heck, who knows it looks like the op was one and done on this thread.
Originally Posted By: Plant.OneOriginally Posted By: GLShooterFrom what I'm seeing it is quite simply not bumping the shoulders back enough. If the die at MAX sizing is not doing that then one can cut the shell holder or shorten the die body to get more movement in the shoulder. The first is easier and cheaper and preferable IMHO. If you have a press with a rotating shell holder the die will need to be trimmed back. An oversize cut chamber has nothing to do with this issue if my experience over the past 45 years counts for anything.
Greg
how is it a die not bumping the shoulder enough issue when the cases were fired from the gun that they're being resized for?
that should mean they're fire formed to his chamber and its only AFTER doing through the die that there's a problem - at least thats how i read it.
or does the shoulder come forward during the body sizing part of the process and then get moved back by the shoulder portion of the die?
i promise i'm not trolling ya greg, i'm trying to make sure i understand the order of change during the sizing better
As 204 mentioned that is correct. The die squeezes in the expanded case and the shoulder moves forward initially until the dies shoulder pushes it back.
Some dies just won't size back to 0.003 or so below fired size and in that case the cutting of the holder or die are needed. I have an M1A that is tight and a Hornady due that is large. I cut the holder back about 0.010 to allow the cases to chamber.
Using a neck size only die you must use cases fired in that chamber. Since nothing is changed other than the neck after a couple of firings a full length resizing will be required. The powerful caming of a bolt gun makes it possible. NS only in an AR is the path to unreliability and possible disaster.
Greg
Greg
how is it a die not bumping the shoulder enough issue when the cases were fired from the gun that they're being resized for?
that should mean they're fire formed to his chamber and its only AFTER doing through the die that there's a problem - at least thats how i read it.
or does the shoulder come forward during the body sizing part of the process and then get moved back by the shoulder portion of the die?
i promise i'm not trolling ya greg, i'm trying to make sure i understand the order of change during the sizing better
As 204 mentioned that is correct. The die squeezes in the expanded case and the shoulder moves forward initially until the dies shoulder pushes it back.
Some dies just won't size back to 0.003 or so below fired size and in that case the cutting of the holder or die are needed. I have an M1A that is tight and a Hornady due that is large. I cut the holder back about 0.010 to allow the cases to chamber.
Using a neck size only die you must use cases fired in that chamber. Since nothing is changed other than the neck after a couple of firings a full length resizing will be required. The powerful caming of a bolt gun makes it possible. NS only in an AR is the path to unreliability and possible disaster.
Greg
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Plant.One
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: GLShooter
As 204 mentioned that is correct. The die squeezes in the expanded case and the shoulder moves forward initially until the dies shoulder pushes it back.
Some dies just won't size back to 0.003 or so below fired size and in that case the cutting of the holder or die are needed. I have an M1A that is tight and a Hornady due that is large. I cut the holder back about 0.010 to allow the cases to chamber.
Greg
thank you for the explanation. never realized the shoulder moved both directions in sizing. always had asssumed because we talk about "bumping it back 0.00x from fired dimension" that it was stationary until the shoulder set portion of the die hit it.
learn something new all the time.
love participating in these discussions for stuff like this.
thank you both for sharing your knowledge!
As 204 mentioned that is correct. The die squeezes in the expanded case and the shoulder moves forward initially until the dies shoulder pushes it back.
Some dies just won't size back to 0.003 or so below fired size and in that case the cutting of the holder or die are needed. I have an M1A that is tight and a Hornady due that is large. I cut the holder back about 0.010 to allow the cases to chamber.
Greg
thank you for the explanation. never realized the shoulder moved both directions in sizing. always had asssumed because we talk about "bumping it back 0.00x from fired dimension" that it was stationary until the shoulder set portion of the die hit it.
learn something new all the time.
love participating in these discussions for stuff like this.
thank you both for sharing your knowledge!
Originally Posted By: 6724Ive had the same issue in the past. I tried different shell holders, problem solved. Some shell holders are taller than others.
Yep and a grinder will make them all equal...just saying..LOL Also the slot will vary in width on different shell holders. I found this true trying to load 22 Nosler that squashes out.
Greg
Yep and a grinder will make them all equal...just saying..LOL Also the slot will vary in width on different shell holders. I found this true trying to load 22 Nosler that squashes out.
Greg
Originally Posted By: BearI can't remember where I saw them but you can buy shell holders that vary by a couple of thousands. measure the thickness of your shell holder and buy one thinner by a few thou and you can back the die off if needed.
THose would work but for me three minutes on a grinder saved mr $68.00. Any way to skin a cat that works. BTW 5 degrees rotation on the standard sizer usually results in about 0.001 movement on the shoulder so it isn't real hard to get dialed in quickly when you pair it up with a comparator.
Greg
THose would work but for me three minutes on a grinder saved mr $68.00. Any way to skin a cat that works. BTW 5 degrees rotation on the standard sizer usually results in about 0.001 movement on the shoulder so it isn't real hard to get dialed in quickly when you pair it up with a comparator.
Greg