What would you do #8

BrianID

Member
*** If reading this post is difficult due to the picture on your computer, scroll down to post on 3/6/21***

Occasionally while calling I'm in situations I need to make a difficult decision and learn just as much from my mistakes as my successes. I think others would find this scenario interesting and like to hear what others would do because I'm always trying to learn new tricks to fool coyotes.

Yesterday morning I had a few hours free and my wife wanted me to take the dogs out to run their energy out. I thought I would attempt to call some coyotes on a couple stands even though this BLM land gets a lot of human traffic from hikers, recreational shooters, ATVs, dirt bikes, etc. There are still many coyotes even though I know it gets heavy calling pressure.

We have a 10 month and 22 month golden doodles. AWS has gone with me when I took these dogs calling coyotes and seen how they are not any help when it comes to calling coyotes. They have too much energy and are always moving around while I'm calling. I've had numerous coyotes coming in and once they spot my dogs decided that the crying rabbit isn't worth fighting a couple goofy dogs for. They would make great bait if they weighed half as much as a coyote instead of twice as much as a coyote.

I started this stand with a couple howls, followed by a couple minutes of silence. Then I did about 30 seconds of crying rabbit on my Carver rabid rabbit followed by another couple minutes of silence. At about the 4 minute mark I spot a coyote moving about 500 yards out and it stops where the red circle is. I'm almost certain it has spotted my restless dogs running around. Wind is moving about 5mph the direction of the purple arrow.

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I'm completely covered by the shadow of a large yuca plant so I feel confident I can get away with some slow movement so I take a look with my 10X binoculars to get a better read on the coyotes body language. There is also a 2nd coyote next to it in the brush that has a much larger body size. I'm guessing they are a mating pair and the big one is the male. They are looking in my direction and alert and I'm almost certain they are looking at my dogs who are exploring the brush 10-30 yards to the side of me. After a minute of them looking in my direction, it appears they are not convinced it is a good idea to come any closer.

What would you do?

#1 Try calling them closer? What sound will you use?
- this is risky because they will likely circle to the right and disappear behind a hill when they are still 300+ yards away and then reappear on the hill on the right 200 yards away where they are directly downwind. They could very likely smell me before I get a good shot opportunity.

#2 Take the shot? They are 380 yards away.
-I could make this shot but I feel much more confident if I could get prone. Wind drift for my little 40 gr bullet will be about 10 inches so I'm not all that confident that I could anchor both coyotes quickly with only shooting two times.

#3 Wait them out and see what they do or try something else?

If they are standing side by side, would you shoot the smaller once first because it is likely the female? This is assuming the male is more likely to give you a shot because he doesn't want to leave the female behind.

I'll post what I did and the coyotes did in a couple days.

 
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#1 try pup distress. I wouldn't take a shot that far, because I doubt I could make it with my normal calling rifle. Maybe if I had dail ups and a range finder I might. They might circle down wind, but they may do that in option #3 too.
 
I can tell you what I would do. Leave the dogs at home since you already know they aren't conducive to coyote hunting. That wasn't an option but it should have been #1.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleUpI can tell you what I would do. Leave the dogs at home since you already know they aren't conducive to coyote hunting. That wasn't an option but it should have been #1.

I agree, NO DOGS !!!
 
Die the dogs a coyote or camo color, use an ecollar so they will sit stay through the shooting. I would have setup further to the right if the coyote came from where you expected, you need more crosswind.
 
I love those dogs, what a hoot to have along, I wanted to take one home with me. Maybe not conducive to shooting coyotes but they sure would be fun to go quail hunting with. Give them another year and some training and you can put them on a down-stay while you calling and let them roam to and from the stand.

My Trooper dog(German Wirehair) would hike out to the stand and lay by my side during the stand and let me know if anything was coming from the upwind side then we would hunt pheasants , quail and ducks on the way back to the truck.

I guess it comes down to what is more important, killing a coyote or spending a day chasing around the desert with your dogs and maybe killing a coyote. I'd take the latter as there are always days with out them.
 
***** I understand some people may have a difficult time reading the post due to the picture so I copy and pasted this below, so it is easier to read*****

Occasionally while calling I'm in situations I need to make a difficult decision and learn just as much from my mistakes as my successes. I think others would find this scenario interesting and like to hear what others would do because I'm always trying to learn new tricks to fool coyotes.

Yesterday morning I had a few hours free and my wife wanted me to take the dogs out to run their energy out. I thought I would attempt to call some coyotes on a couple stands even though this BLM land gets a lot of human traffic from hikers, recreational shooters, ATVs, dirt bikes, etc. There are still many coyotes even though I know it gets heavy calling pressure.

We have a 10 month and 22 month golden doodles. AWS has gone with me when I took these dogs calling coyotes and seen how they are not any help when it comes to calling coyotes. They have too much energy and are always moving around while I'm calling. I've had numerous coyotes coming in and once they spot my dogs decided that the crying rabbit isn't worth fighting a couple goofy dogs for. They would make great bait if they weighed half as much as a coyote instead of twice as much as a coyote.

I started this stand with a couple howls, followed by a couple minutes of silence. Then I did about 30 seconds of crying rabbit on my Carver rabid rabbit followed by another couple minutes of silence. At about the 4 minute mark I spot a coyote moving about 500 yards out and it stops where the red circle is. I'm almost certain it has spotted my restless dogs running around. Wind is moving about 5mph the direction of the purple arrow.


I'm completely covered by the shadow of a large yuca plant so I feel confident I can get away with some slow movement so I take a look with my 10X binoculars to get a better read on the coyotes body language. There is also a 2nd coyote next to it in the brush that has a much larger body size. I'm guessing they are a mating pair and the big one is the male. They are looking in my direction and alert and I'm almost certain they are looking at my dogs who are exploring the brush 10-30 yards to the side of me. After a minute of them looking in my direction, it appears they are not convinced it is a good idea to come any closer.

What would you do?

#1 Try calling them closer? What sound will you use?
- this is risky because they will likely circle to the right and disappear behind a hill when they are still 300+ yards away and then reappear on the hill on the right 200 yards away where they are directly downwind. They could very likely smell me before I get a good shot opportunity.

#2 Take the shot? They are 380 yards away.
-I could make this shot but I feel much more confident if I could get prone. Wind drift for my little 40 gr bullet will be about 10 inches so I'm not all that confident that I could anchor both coyotes quickly with only shooting two times.

#3 Wait them out and see what they do or try something else?

If they are standing side by side, would you shoot the smaller once first because it is likely the female? This is assuming the male is more likely to give you a shot because he doesn't want to leave the female behind.

I'll post what I did and the coyotes did in a couple days.
 
DoubleUp and Pa.mike,

I would agree, if my goal is to kill coyotes then bringing my dogs along is a terrible idea. The main reason I hunt coyotes is to relax and unwind so I bring my dogs along often. They are both still puppies and the more I take them along to do stuff the better they get at acting more appropriate on coyote stands. They also behave much better at home if I take them out and stimulated them with some good hikes and exploration in the desert.
 
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshootDie the dogs a coyote or camo color, use an ecollar so they will sit stay through the shooting. I would have setup further to the right if the coyote came from where you expected, you need more crosswind.

I like your idea best but if I spray painted the dogs, my wife would be upset that I messed up "her boys" beautiful white hair. I've used an ecollor on the older one of few time and he seems to hold a grudge for a few days after. They are both getting much better on coyote stands. Overall they behave quite well considering my lack of skill as a trainer and them still being young and inexperienced.

I agree that more crosswind would have been much better. After I spotted these two coyotes coming in, I was wishing I was set up 200 yards on the hill to my right. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm always learning from my mistakes.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr. Poppadopalis#5. I would leave them alone! They haven’t done anything to hurt you!


Love,

PETA



Unfortunately there are too many people that believe exactly as your sarcastic comment suggests. They are often the same type of people that believe socialism is a good idea. I have great respect for coyotes but believing coyote populations do not need some control by humans is naive. They can be a very destructive and are not even close to the same animal as a pet dog. It is like trying to compare an ISIS fighter to one of our fine young men serving the the armed forces.
 
AWS,

They are getting better. I'm thinking the more time I put into them, the better they will get. I think both could become good bird dogs if I put the time into training them. I haven't hunted birds much the past 20 years but I'm thinking this fall I might spend more time chasing doves, quail and waterfowl.
 
I've always said two things a man should have in his life, "A wonderful wife, and a great dog." I've been blessed to have both, and more than one great dog. So, if your purpose is exercising dogs or training dogs and you don't expect to do much in the killing dept. that is fine. Dogs naturally want to please their owners, and so can become great hunters as well as companions. With that said, "If I really wanted to kill the coyotes, I would leave the dogs home." If I didn't, I'd probably leave the gun home. Of course if you bring the doggies home with bite marks on their rumps, that could be a challenge as well, so maybe you better carry the gun just in case.
 
Yellowhammer,

Pup distress was the ticket. It has worked numerous times on hung up coyotes and worked very well in this particular situation. I'm also not good enough of a shot to feel confident in dropping two hung up coyotes at 400 yards. I'm also not out there to kill coyotes, I'm out there to enjoy the challenge of calling coyotes.

The biggest surprise for me is that they were not a mating pair or at least not a "traditional mating pair." There was a big old male with broad shoulders and worn down teeth and a younger male.

After watching them hung up for a couple minutes and being fairly confident they were looking at my dogs, I decided to put out some "female invitation howls" on my fox pro. This really got the bigger coyotes attention and he took a few steps forward but I think he hesitated and stopped because he was sizing my dogs up. After a minute the 2nd coyote, which at the time I thought was the female, lost interest and started to go back the way "she" came. The big male was standing at full attention and still seemed very interested even though the "female" was leaving. At this point I felt I had nothing to loose, let pup distress play. After about 15 seconds of pup distress the big male decided to commit and come in to get a closer look at my goofy dogs. Less than 30 seconds later the "female" turned around and decided to come and check things out as well. They followed the direction of the blue arrow in the picture below. When they were about 300 yards out they disappeared behind the hill where the arrow ends. I only played pup distress for 30 seconds and then switched to woody wood pecker.

A couple minutes later they came over the hill about 200 yards away and then sat down to evaluate the situation. My e caller was about 50 yards downwind of me with a decoy flipping around and my dogs were not moving much but I think the coyotes were sizing up my dogs and upset some other dogs had invaded their territory. I didn't hesitate to shoot because they were almost straight downwind. Fortunately the "female" gave me a good shot and I dropped her first. "fox bang" didn't pick up my suppressed gun going off from 50 yards away so I quickly switched the remote to pup distress and was able to stop the big male but his body was behind some brush. Fortunately his head and neck were exposed and I was also able to drop him in his tracks. The big male was dropped where the yellow circle is and the smaller male was dropped at the blue circle.

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Even though the picture doesn't show it well, the coyote on the left had considerably large bodied, broader shoulders and old worn down teeth. I would guess the other coyote was a 2 or 3 year old male because it had a larger body than most of the pups I've seen in southern NM but I'm only speculating.

t-Rjuk5d7-QAOa5-RNTl-Q1ho-A.jpg
 
Good job getting two. Pup In Distress appeared to work, but with two, I would have challenged them. They could most likely see your dog but their long range eyesight isn't great. They see by movement. I am fairly certain at that range they probably couldn't tell your dog wasn't a coyote.
 
Originally Posted By: BrianID***** I understand some people may have a difficult time reading the post due to the picture so I copy and pasted this below, so it is easier to read*****


Yes, it is much easier to read. Having to move back and forth left and right on every line to see it all gets old in a hurry.

Thank you!

I use Vole squeaks sound on about half volume on any coyotes that hang up way out there. At least 50% of the time Vole Squeaks brings them in closer.Vole Squeaks is one of my pre-set sounds so I can switch to it quickly.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleUp Of course if you bring the doggies home with bite marks on their rumps, that could be a challenge as well, so maybe you better carry the gun just in case.

Having a coyote maul one of my dogs is a very real concern. It limits where I set up, so I have a good view of any coyote that might try to sneak in close. When I bring them along, I have to pass on many of the "shotgun" stands that I often find productive. I also set up my e caller 50 -100 yards away instead of 20-30 yards away. Fortunately my dogs stay by my side and listen well when called so I think their risk is minimal. One dog is about 75 pounds. The other is now close to 60 pounds and they also have long fur that makes them look bigger so just their size keeps most coyotes from coming after them. On a one to one fight, I'm sure even a 20lb coyote could beat one of my dogs easy. Two coyotes on one of my dogs wouldn't even be a close fight.
 
Quote:***** I understand some people may have a difficult time reading the post due to the picture so I copy and pasted this below, so it is easier to read*****


Once a large photo is posted in a thread, all posts thereafter are too wide for my monitor, as well. I'm pretty sure that is what yellowhammer is speaking of as well.

They can be read, but must scroll back and forth, line by line.

Regards,
hm
 
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