changing game

I kill a fair share both during the day and during the night as our night season in my state doesn't open up until after our deer season ends. Do I average more coyotes at night than during the day? Yes, but it isn't as substantially different as many think because I am good at both methods. A thermal isn't going to turn a 10 coyote a year person into a 100 coyote a year person. If you are good during the day, you will most likely be a good night hunter. If you suck during the day, you will most likely suck at night.

I am shocked people are saying negative things about cans. I don't use one to hide illegal activities, I use one so that it is easier on my ears, my hunting partner's ears, as well as doesn't spook as much wildlife as well as cattle, etc. The ranchers I help with coyote issues appreciate that I am using a suppressor. I have partial hearing loss in one ear because of being next to someone without a can.

The idea of "I appreciate the hunt during the day so much better" is a matter of perspective, and that is what some people appreciate and that is fine. To me there is nothing better than being out on the open plains, on a really dark night with the stars shining so bright, it feels like you can touch them. You pull the thermal up to your eye and the entire countryside becomes visible. There is very little human activity and it is usually just me, nature, and the animals that frequent the night. From my perspective, this is the most peaceful time for hunting, but that is to me, and may not be the case for everyone.

I would venture a guess the same discussion has happened with e-callers vs hand calling and many other technologies. I am not trying to open up another controversial subject but it is easy for people to jump on either side of conversations like this. The Anti's put so much pressure the last thing we coyote hunters should be doing is calling each other names for doing what we love to do.



 
Originally Posted By: DesertRamOriginally Posted By: AWSWould never be appreciative of them, to me there is a lot more to coyote/predator hunting than killing them, and a lot of that has to do with what else goes on, scenery, other game, the list goes on. If I had to drive around in the dark and see everything in shades of green or grey predator hunting wouldn't intertest me in the slightest.

This right here is why I don't get bothered that we can't night hunt in NM. I've done it AZ and TX. It's okay, and a fun way to whack a pig and put meat in the freezer and control problem animals. However, as AWS states, there is so much more to my predator calling outings than just making a fuzzy thing dead. I'd skip night calling for the same reason I carry a bino on every stand - I want to see it all! I want to soak it in. Luxuriate in the experience of the hunt. I like to see, to gaze upon nature and all its glory. Yes, that sounds cheesy, but that's why I go. A dead thing is secondary to the overall experience. When night hunting I felt so restrained, so closed in, so limited, like driving down an overgrown trail and only seeing the tunnel. I suppose that's an extension of my love for open spaces and long vistas.

I certainly don't begrudge those with the opportunity to night hunt doing it. It's just not for me. I also don't believe that the prevalence of night vision, thermal, and suppressors will cause a dramatic increase in poaching. Sure, a few opportunists may stretch a litter farther than they would have before, but as many have already said, a poacher is gonna poach regardless, and honest folks will stay honest. There is so much land where I hunt, and so few wardens to patrol it, that most of us here could get away with virtually anything if we're smart about it. We don't because we're honest, conservation-minded sportsmen, not poachers.

Does NV and thermal hunting make coyotes smarter? Not sure about that. I know they've been whacking them in TX with spotlights and NV for years, and good callers still seem to bring them in by the truckload.

The above are opinions that unfortunately most don't get now days.

As a Cattle Rancher and someone who helps other Ranchers with Problems I can see both perspectives. Ranchers want them dead, and so whether it's a black and white screen, or it's just a fuzzy Coyote, it dies, and dies with precision. OR we could let the state come in, and blanket kill hundreds. Personally I like being the happy medium.

I did overlook the suppressor comment which is... whatever, think what you want, been saying it for years before anyone thought they were even legal. Now I just say it's common sense to increase your effectiveness while making your over all range more efficient.

I agree with you guys and was going to add it into my initial post. A day hunting kill is worth 10X that of a night kill, not only from a filming perspective, but from a personal, enjoyable, experience, looking through glass instead of a screen, knowing that animal can see you better than you can see it.

Anytime something is harder, when your successful it's worth more than when something is easy.

BUT... BUT... I could give 2 [beeep] about looking at a black and white screen, or "just making a fuzzy thing dead" when the people who provide this worlds food supply, call and say hey... We got a Coyote problem.
 
Originally Posted By: KirschI kill a fair share both during the day and during the night as our night season in my state doesn't open up until after our deer season ends. Do I average more coyotes at night than during the day? Yes, but it isn't as substantially different as many think because I am good at both methods. A thermal isn't going to turn a 10 coyote a year person into a 100 coyote a year person. If you are good during the day, you will most likely be a good night hunter. If you suck during the day, you will most likely suck at night.

I am shocked people are saying negative things about cans. I don't use one to hide illegal activities, I use one so that it is easier on my ears, my hunting partner's ears, as well as doesn't spook as much wildlife as well as cattle, etc. The ranchers I help with coyote issues appreciate that I am using a suppressor. I have partial hearing loss in one ear because of being next to someone without a can.

The idea of "I appreciate the hunt during the day so much better" is a matter of perspective, and that is what you appreciate and that is fine. To me there is nothing better than being out on the open plains, on a really dark night with the stars shining so bright, it feels like you can touch them. You pull the thermal up to your eye and the entire countryside becomes visible and becomes alive. There is very little activity and it is usually just me, nature, and the animals that frequent the night. From my perspective, this is the most peaceful time for hunting, but that is to me, and may not be the case for everyone.

I would venture a guess the same discussion has happened with e-callers vs hand calling and many other technologies. I am not trying to open up another controversial subject but it is easy for people to jump on either side of conversations like this. The Anti's put so much pressure the last thing we coyote hunters should be doing is calling each other names for doing what we love to do.





So much truth in this statement, I couldn't agree more.
 
My post was mainly made in jest, but it is true. It can turn a 10 a year guy into a 100 a year unless he is totally incompetent. I know east of the Mississippi can be tough, and if they didn't allow night hunting very few coyotes would be killed. It's not for me, but I'm not truly against it either. Knock yourself out.

On a side note: I know a guy that has been killing coyotes for a living for 20 years and he still has a job. Just saying.
 
Quote:Anytime something is harder, when your successful it's worth more than when something is easy.


This is true, in most things and is not a new idea when it comes to hunting. I have had two quotes by Aldo Leopold (Father of Wildlife Management for those who never heard of him) in my signature for years.

They go like this:

"The recreational value of a head of game is inverse to the artificiality of its origin"

"No prize is greater than the effort taken to acheive it"

He died in 1948.
 
You’re right tripod. I’ve poached so much stuff I’m posting this from my jail cell right now.

I always read on the net how one way to hunt is more satisfying than another way. Usually it comes from archery hunters. Now it’s coming from predator hunters also.

I actually enjoy hunting coyotes at night way more than during the day. I can go out for an hour after work. I’m not blessed to be able to carry a weapon at work. So there is zero day hunting for me unless I’m off and the kid doesn’t have sports that day. Maybe it’s a novelty idk. Usually if I go out during the day I get caught up scouting for deer and don’t hardly hunt coyotes. Heck I carry the BTX 95 with me hunting coyotes during the day. Never know when that mature buck is going to show up.

I’m curious why anyone would waste their time day hunting coyotes unless it’s after deer have shed their antlers. 🤣🤣🤣 joking
 
Originally Posted By: skinney
The above are opinions that unfortunately most don't get now days.

As a Cattle Rancher and someone who helps other Ranchers with Problems I can see both perspectives. Ranchers want them dead, and so whether it's a black and white screen, or it's just a fuzzy Coyote, it dies, and dies with precision. OR we could let the state come in, and blanket kill hundreds. Personally I like being the happy medium.

I did overlook the suppressor comment which is... whatever, think what you want, been saying it for years before anyone thought they were even legal. Now I just say it's common sense to increase your effectiveness while making your over all range more efficient.

I agree with you guys and was going to add it into my initial post. A day hunting kill is worth 10X that of a night kill, not only from a filming perspective, but from a personal, enjoyable, experience, looking through glass instead of a screen, knowing that animal can see you better than you can see it.

Anytime something is harder, when your successful it's worth more than when something is easy.

BUT... BUT... I could give 2 [beeep] about looking at a black and white screen, or "just making a fuzzy thing dead" when the people who provide this worlds food supply, call and say hey... We got a Coyote problem.

Yep, all my opinion, for sure. And that's why I included the clause about problem animals, to provide context. I'm a recreational caller. The impact I have on coyote populations is negligible. I don't fancy myself good enough to be a problem animal guy, and that's all right. I go out to have fun, and if reducing the population a little helps a rancher or helps me out by keeping a couple deer or antelope alive for next year's hunt, then that's a great bonus.

For sure, when predators are jeopardizing cheeseburgers, or cheeseburger producers' livelihoods, the gloves come off!
smile.gif
You are correct, we hunters should be filling that role whenever possible. It's frustrating to see taxpayer money used for ADC when hunters will do it for free, or even pay to! But again, that's a whole different ball game than many of us play.
 
Originally Posted By: KirschThe idea of "I appreciate the hunt during the day so much better" is a matter of perspective, and that is what you appreciate and that is fine. To me there is nothing better than being out on the open plains, on a really dark night with the stars shining so bright, it feels like you can touch them. You pull the thermal up to your eye and the entire countryside becomes visible and becomes alive. There is very little activity and it is usually just me, nature, and the animals that frequent the night. From my perspective, this is the most peaceful time for hunting, but that is to me, and may not be the case for everyone.

Absolutely; all perspective. I've never used thermal, so perhaps I need more experience. Calling and hunting at night with a light has almost no appeal to me, except for hogs. Sneaking up on a hog, lighting him up, and getting a shot is an absolute hoot! I am privileged to hunt pretty remote areas for coyotes, so even daytime is very peaceful. I imagine my perspective could change with changing conditions. And hats off to you for getting out there in the dark and cold. This desert rat would freeze to death!

Originally Posted By: KirschI would venture a guess the same discussion has happened with e-callers vs hand calling and many other technologies. I am not trying to open up another controversial subject but it is easy for people to jump on either side of conversations like this. The Anti's put so much pressure the last thing we coyote hunters should be doing is calling each other names for doing what we love to do.

No name calling here. No issues with night hunting where legal. Have at it. I'm sure I'll do it again if the opportunity arises, just because I like all kinds of hunting. Based on my experience though, I much prefer calling in the daytime.

I darn sure won't advocate for taking opportunities from others, even if I don't support that type of hunting.
 
Suppressor hunting...sorry i dont see the issue. Saves my ears, and keeps land owners happy around here.

Im not blessed to hubt big tracks of land that doesnt have a house for miles and miles. So not using lights and having a Suppressor helps my cause quite a bit.

As far as poachers, i have wondered samething. But, have never heard or seen of anyone doing such a thing. This comes from an area that was littered with white tail poachers years ago. I personally think that the price point kept most of the poachers i knew out of the game. Not to mention you had to pass a federal background check to get a Suppressor.

As far as why i night hunt, its simple, time. I work 60+ hours a week, and i all but stopped coyote hunting because of it. Finally i scrapped togeather some money and ended up with what i have now. I kill more dogs, and have way more fun now. I enjoy being out in dark by myself.

As mentioned, you will always find someone that will bend the rules. Poach or tresspass...whatever it is...someone will always do it. This technology wont change that.

And for the record...thermal isnt what id use to kill big bucks at night.
 
Well I am glad to see some facts and sense coming out of this.
It seems a few think it is perfectly fine for them to throw out absolutely ridiculous scenarios and labels but if I say one in return it's "Oh my god".
First I'm pretty confident that most level intelligent members know I am not a so called "anti" and have been active here daily for a very long time(over 16 years) and have contributed regularly in all phases.
This thread is not dumb as someone has stated repeatedly.
This is far from comparison of carrying a pistol in a store.
Seems a lot of folks just want to argue for the sake of fighting.
Maybe I'm not always the best at portraying my message but that does not automatically make it wrong or make it a hidden message for a ban or whatever someone can spin it as.
I am not against thermal nv or cans which should be obvious by my comments/participation in posts for years past, even though some would like to put the words in my mouth.
I do get to use ranchers thermals/nv on their guns with their ammo as stated and in other posts.
Often they will leave a side by side for me to use or even drive me themselves. They love to see me shoot stuff.
The WDFW has featured(picture) me on their website shooting a deer.
A rancher has videoed me shooting a deer where they drove me.

With my coyote hunting ability, honesty and integrity I get to hunt private ground exclusively.
Several ranchers hold several thousand acres for me exclusively for deer and or elk until I am successful.
Recently two ranchers have called or stopped to ask If I had been through last night or if I had taken anyone through, which I never do, but had seen tracks in snow(vehicle and foot).
With more investigation we have found carcasses.
Another hunter with permission on one place encountered several others with thermals trespassing and cleared out because he was outnumbered.
The WDFW has found a large poached buck nearby left to waste.
A real long story is a poached elk before any light where I was the only one with permission and was on the property.
Another poached buck before any light where again I was the only one with permission and was on the property and eventually it showed up in a picture on the net.
In short this is why it has become a subject of conversation with landowners and law enforcement, sometimes at my house.
For those that think it is easy for law enforcement to out tech any given poacher any day need a reality check.
Plenty of cases with little manpower and sometimes they are lucky to gather the needed evidence and get processed before the statute of limitations expires. So they try to focus on the bigger multiple cases of poaching.
One game officer averages about 60,000 miles per year and when I call him, he may be 200 miles away.
Each hunting season and sometimes out of season our newspapers, tv stations and internet are posted with poaching, most often groups, or sometimes a large rancher, or businessman are featured.
The fines if any rarely match the offense.
The reality, it is happening with more frequency and I am losing out on what is not exactly easy to achieve.
Bottom line-for what I thought was a short reality post in slower times here has turned out a lot of crap which I think reflects on the mindset of a few wanting to stir a pot for some reason or cast hate on something for entertainment.
They could simply be unhappy people.
I have been kicked around by way better here before and for what, cause I didn't like the caliber they loved or because they thought my rifle brand was inferior and best of all these types love to call people "anti" if you don't eat, sleep, and dream exactly as they do.
We don't see very many anti's where I live so it is not part of my daily language until this thread.
 
I have never used a thermal or NV to hunt with but appreciate them as another tool. I hunt coyote, fox and bobcat, mainly after dark, using red lights. In one night I can hear more coyote vocalizations than a day hunter may hear all year. I have seen stuff at night you'd never see in the day - called in owls, watched shooting stars, etc. Many places here in the eastern US where the highway/background noise during the day can make hunting unenjoyable or unproductive because nothing moves with all of the local activity. No one else interfering with the hunt at night - hikers, deer hunters, ATV traffic, road traffic. Winds are generally lighter at night so that's nice too.

Cans are not legal in NY, but maybe some day. Besides hearing protection, they would be great to reduce the number of calls to local police for shots fired - day or night. NV/thermal would also reduce calls from those seeing spotlights in the woods (though I don't think too many see the red spotlights).

If I were a poacher it would at least cross my mind that I could be losing a $3000+ thermal scope if caught using it illegally.
 
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This was an enlightening thread. In AZ right now our G&F is going to ban game cameras. Using the not fair chase argument. Be prepared to see more of this for electronic equipment used to hunt. In AZ night hunting is almost ( with a few exceptions) not allowed as is thermal/nv. The antis will nickle and dime hunting away. They got predator contests banned in AZ, just like they did for trapping. You may not like something but when it is gone your thing will be next.
 
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Originally Posted By: ThomCThis was an enlightening thread. In AZ right now our G&F is going to ban game cameras. Using the not fair chase argument. Be prepared to see more of this for electronic equipment used to hunt. In AZ night hunting is almost ( with a few exceptions) not allowed as is thermal/nv. The antis will nickle and dime hunting away. They got predator contests banned in AZ, just like they did for trapping. You may not like something but when it is gone your thing will be next.

Yes bans are increasing on technology used in hunting.
Drones are now banned here for hunting.
I think live trail cams are banned for hunting in Nevada.
They have been looking at regulating Ebikes for hunting here, not sure of outcome. They have been indicated as a problem needing to be governed as should be considered motorized vehicles.
Game dept has weighed legalizing thermal for game recovery but realizes it can be used to locate game making it unethical.
Hunting is slowly changing as aging hunters participate less while fewer young hunters grow up with it and don't learn it in city schools.
 
Well, there you go! Soon only spear throwing will be allowed and even the atlatl will be considered "unethical". The problem with any group who has power over others is they always seem to end up abusing that power. And of course as we've seen over the past year with the pandemic, there is the problem of using that power fairly/equally on everyone.
 
Tripod you say your post has turned out a lot of crap by a few who want to stir the pot or cast hate. It seems to me you were the one calling another member a poacher.

You also mention putting words in someone's mouth and then twisted my post about technology in enforcement.

Telling us your hunting ability, honesty and integrity gets you privileges but not answering why you called someone a poacher doesn't add up.
 
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