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#3271706 - 02/22/21 07:42 PM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 5607
Loc: NM
There probably isn't anymore poachers because of thermals and night vision but the chances of catching them has gone way down. Poaching isn't just shooting a deer illegally to fill the freezer, but harvesting trophy bucks to sell a really big set of horns can turn a good profit. When I lived in MN there was a regular circuit that a semi would make and pick up poached deer, the meat was used at a local sausage plant
_________________________
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

Heaven has rules and walls, He-l has open borders

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#3271711 - 02/22/21 08:02 PM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
SlickerThanSnot Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/31/14
Posts: 5492
Loc: stuck in a fence
Originally Posted By: tripod3
Well I can tell you are a poacher now looking hard for an out.



how in the world did you come to that conclusion? good grief.
_________________________
skeptical is what i am when told there is a dead coyote in certain far off pictures.

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#3271753 - 02/23/21 12:24 AM Re: changing game [Re: SlickerThanSnot]
P&Y Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/04/19
Posts: 414
Loc: ND
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: tripod3
Well I can tell you are a poacher now looking hard for an out.



how in the world did you come to that conclusion? good grief.


That's exactly what I asked and was promptly ignored.
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Friends don't let friends use Pulsar

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#3271754 - 02/23/21 12:30 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
P&Y Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/04/19
Posts: 414
Loc: ND
I love using thermal but also worry this equipment could be used by poachers.

One thing to remember is technology works both ways in criminal justice. A major poacher in our area was just sentenced and the warden used multiple forms of technology that revealed a ton of evidence. Technology that would have never been available not too long ago.


Edited by P&Y (02/23/21 12:31 AM)
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Friends don't let friends use Pulsar

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#3271757 - 02/23/21 01:17 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
RockChucker1980 Offline
New Member

Registered: 07/01/18
Posts: 17
Loc: Colorado
Good god next he's going to start calling you a racist.
Pump the brakes Karen.

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#3271761 - 02/23/21 03:44 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
509welder Offline
New Member

Registered: 10/20/20
Posts: 24
Loc: Washington
This is how the anti's, hunting and 2nd amendment win so much, I can no longer hunt Bobcats at night because of it probably only a matter of time before you cant hunt coyotes at night. The antis get to gether with the public land hunters and say look at these guys hunting trophy game inside this private high fence only rich people get to hunt there, it not fair because it's not real hunting.
And so on and so forth until like one person said your in your backyard shooting a cardboard coyote with a slingshot. It's not the role of man to rule over other men. Stay in your lane, hunt however you think is the best way for you and quit worrying about people you cant control.

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#3271770 - 02/23/21 08:01 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
DoubleUp Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/18/10
Posts: 3327
Loc: USA
It is always amusing when someone chooses to post an opinion on a public forum, and then gets upset because everyone doesn't agree with them. Antler hunters aren't using thermal because antlers only show well during velvet. They may be using NV which has been available for a much longer time, and game populations didn't crash.

If you want a real challenge come to the east and try hunting coyotes in the daytime. Then you might have a little more appreciation for thermal.

So my conclusion is:

beating-a-dead-horse by Double Up, on Flickr
_________________________
Glow Bull Warming:
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Psalm 2:4




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#3271779 - 02/23/21 09:02 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
P&Y Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/04/19
Posts: 414
Loc: ND
And then call another member a poacher!

Got to thinking about this more and the only instances I know of were actually instances where thermal hunters witnessed crimes - go figure!

IME the people who invest in this equipment do so because they are passionate about the sport and want to enjoy it to the fullest. Not because they can't call coyotes in the daylight or because they want to poach. The guys I know who have thermals were also the best daylight callers I knew.


Edited by P&Y (02/23/21 09:05 AM)
_________________________
Friends don't let friends use Pulsar

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#3271781 - 02/23/21 09:07 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
AWS Offline
Moderator

Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 5607
Loc: NM
Would never be appreciative of them, to me there is a lot more to coyote/predator hunting than killing them, and a lot of that has to do with what else goes on, scenery, other game, the list goes on. If I had to drive around in the dark and see everything in shades of green or grey predator hunting wouldn't intertest me in the slightest.

Yes I have night hunter but moonlight over the snow, fox in northern MN.
_________________________
After the first shot the rest are just noise.

Make mine a Minaska.

Heaven has rules and walls, He-l has open borders

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#3271793 - 02/23/21 10:35 AM Re: changing game [Re: AWS]
DesertRam Offline
Moderator

Registered: 04/26/01
Posts: 8985
Loc: Las Cruces, NM USA
Originally Posted By: AWS
Would never be appreciative of them, to me there is a lot more to coyote/predator hunting than killing them, and a lot of that has to do with what else goes on, scenery, other game, the list goes on. If I had to drive around in the dark and see everything in shades of green or grey predator hunting wouldn't intertest me in the slightest.


This right here is why I don't get bothered that we can't night hunt in NM. I've done it AZ and TX. It's okay, and a fun way to whack a pig and put meat in the freezer and control problem animals. However, as AWS states, there is so much more to my predator calling outings than just making a fuzzy thing dead. I'd skip night calling for the same reason I carry a bino on every stand - I want to see it all! I want to soak it in. Luxuriate in the experience of the hunt. I like to see, to gaze upon nature and all its glory. Yes, that sounds cheesy, but that's why I go. A dead thing is secondary to the overall experience. When night hunting I felt so restrained, so closed in, so limited, like driving down an overgrown trail and only seeing the tunnel. I suppose that's an extension of my love for open spaces and long vistas.

I certainly don't begrudge those with the opportunity to night hunt doing it. It's just not for me. I also don't believe that the prevalence of night vision, thermal, and suppressors will cause a dramatic increase in poaching. Sure, a few opportunists may stretch a litter farther than they would have before, but as many have already said, a poacher is gonna poach regardless, and honest folks will stay honest. There is so much land where I hunt, and so few wardens to patrol it, that most of us here could get away with virtually anything if we're smart about it. We don't because we're honest, conservation-minded sportsmen, not poachers.

Does NV and thermal hunting make coyotes smarter? Not sure about that. I know they've been whacking them in TX with spotlights and NV for years, and good callers still seem to bring them in by the truckload.
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"A person is smart; people are dumb panicky dangerous animals and you know it." K as played by Tommy Lee Jones, Men In Black

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#3271803 - 02/23/21 11:18 AM Re: changing game [Re: tripod3]
Kirsch Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 2321
Loc: North Dakota
I kill a fair share both during the day and during the night as our night season in my state doesn't open up until after our deer season ends. Do I average more coyotes at night than during the day? Yes, but it isn't as substantially different as many think because I am good at both methods. A thermal isn't going to turn a 10 coyote a year person into a 100 coyote a year person. If you are good during the day, you will most likely be a good night hunter. If you suck during the day, you will most likely suck at night.

I am shocked people are saying negative things about cans. I don't use one to hide illegal activities, I use one so that it is easier on my ears, my hunting partner's ears, as well as doesn't spook as much wildlife as well as cattle, etc. The ranchers I help with coyote issues appreciate that I am using a suppressor. I have partial hearing loss in one ear because of being next to someone without a can.

The idea of "I appreciate the hunt during the day so much better" is a matter of perspective, and that is what some people appreciate and that is fine. To me there is nothing better than being out on the open plains, on a really dark night with the stars shining so bright, it feels like you can touch them. You pull the thermal up to your eye and the entire countryside becomes visible. There is very little human activity and it is usually just me, nature, and the animals that frequent the night. From my perspective, this is the most peaceful time for hunting, but that is to me, and may not be the case for everyone.

I would venture a guess the same discussion has happened with e-callers vs hand calling and many other technologies. I am not trying to open up another controversial subject but it is easy for people to jump on either side of conversations like this. The Anti's put so much pressure the last thing we coyote hunters should be doing is calling each other names for doing what we love to do.



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Night Goggles - Pro Staff

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#3271812 - 02/23/21 12:20 PM Re: changing game [Re: DesertRam]
skinney Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 3578
Loc: South Dakota
Originally Posted By: DesertRam
Originally Posted By: AWS
Would never be appreciative of them, to me there is a lot more to coyote/predator hunting than killing them, and a lot of that has to do with what else goes on, scenery, other game, the list goes on. If I had to drive around in the dark and see everything in shades of green or grey predator hunting wouldn't intertest me in the slightest.


This right here is why I don't get bothered that we can't night hunt in NM. I've done it AZ and TX. It's okay, and a fun way to whack a pig and put meat in the freezer and control problem animals. However, as AWS states, there is so much more to my predator calling outings than just making a fuzzy thing dead. I'd skip night calling for the same reason I carry a bino on every stand - I want to see it all! I want to soak it in. Luxuriate in the experience of the hunt. I like to see, to gaze upon nature and all its glory. Yes, that sounds cheesy, but that's why I go. A dead thing is secondary to the overall experience. When night hunting I felt so restrained, so closed in, so limited, like driving down an overgrown trail and only seeing the tunnel. I suppose that's an extension of my love for open spaces and long vistas.

I certainly don't begrudge those with the opportunity to night hunt doing it. It's just not for me. I also don't believe that the prevalence of night vision, thermal, and suppressors will cause a dramatic increase in poaching. Sure, a few opportunists may stretch a litter farther than they would have before, but as many have already said, a poacher is gonna poach regardless, and honest folks will stay honest. There is so much land where I hunt, and so few wardens to patrol it, that most of us here could get away with virtually anything if we're smart about it. We don't because we're honest, conservation-minded sportsmen, not poachers.

Does NV and thermal hunting make coyotes smarter? Not sure about that. I know they've been whacking them in TX with spotlights and NV for years, and good callers still seem to bring them in by the truckload.


The above are opinions that unfortunately most don't get now days.

As a Cattle Rancher and someone who helps other Ranchers with Problems I can see both perspectives. Ranchers want them dead, and so whether it's a black and white screen, or it's just a fuzzy Coyote, it dies, and dies with precision. OR we could let the state come in, and blanket kill hundreds. Personally I like being the happy medium.

I did overlook the suppressor comment which is... whatever, think what you want, been saying it for years before anyone thought they were even legal. Now I just say it's common sense to increase your effectiveness while making your over all range more efficient.

I agree with you guys and was going to add it into my initial post. A day hunting kill is worth 10X that of a night kill, not only from a filming perspective, but from a personal, enjoyable, experience, looking through glass instead of a screen, knowing that animal can see you better than you can see it.

Anytime something is harder, when your successful it's worth more than when something is easy.

BUT... BUT... I could give 2 [beeep] about looking at a black and white screen, or "just making a fuzzy thing dead" when the people who provide this worlds food supply, call and say hey... We got a Coyote problem.
_________________________
Learn to discipline yourself, so someone else doesn't have to.

They'll hear ya three times, see ya twice, but only smell ya once.

Play the Rabbit, and they will come.


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#3271819 - 02/23/21 01:00 PM Re: changing game [Re: Kirsch]
bhallows Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 08/25/17
Posts: 83
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: Kirsch
I kill a fair share both during the day and during the night as our night season in my state doesn't open up until after our deer season ends. Do I average more coyotes at night than during the day? Yes, but it isn't as substantially different as many think because I am good at both methods. A thermal isn't going to turn a 10 coyote a year person into a 100 coyote a year person. If you are good during the day, you will most likely be a good night hunter. If you suck during the day, you will most likely suck at night.

I am shocked people are saying negative things about cans. I don't use one to hide illegal activities, I use one so that it is easier on my ears, my hunting partner's ears, as well as doesn't spook as much wildlife as well as cattle, etc. The ranchers I help with coyote issues appreciate that I am using a suppressor. I have partial hearing loss in one ear because of being next to someone without a can.

The idea of "I appreciate the hunt during the day so much better" is a matter of perspective, and that is what you appreciate and that is fine. To me there is nothing better than being out on the open plains, on a really dark night with the stars shining so bright, it feels like you can touch them. You pull the thermal up to your eye and the entire countryside becomes visible and becomes alive. There is very little activity and it is usually just me, nature, and the animals that frequent the night. From my perspective, this is the most peaceful time for hunting, but that is to me, and may not be the case for everyone.

I would venture a guess the same discussion has happened with e-callers vs hand calling and many other technologies. I am not trying to open up another controversial subject but it is easy for people to jump on either side of conversations like this. The Anti's put so much pressure the last thing we coyote hunters should be doing is calling each other names for doing what we love to do.





So much truth in this statement, I couldn't agree more.

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#3271823 - 02/23/21 01:45 PM Re: changing game [Re: bhallows]
btech29 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 1515
Loc: NW Arkansas
My post was mainly made in jest, but it is true. It can turn a 10 a year guy into a 100 a year unless he is totally incompetent. I know east of the Mississippi can be tough, and if they didn't allow night hunting very few coyotes would be killed. It's not for me, but I'm not truly against it either. Knock yourself out.

On a side note: I know a guy that has been killing coyotes for a living for 20 years and he still has a job. Just saying.
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You can tell a lot about a man by watching him cross a fence.

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#3271830 - 02/23/21 02:59 PM Re: changing game [Re: skinney]
Yellowhammer Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 16500
Loc: Huntington, Texas
Quote:
Anytime something is harder, when your successful it's worth more than when something is easy.


This is true, in most things and is not a new idea when it comes to hunting. I have had two quotes by Aldo Leopold (Father of Wildlife Management for those who never heard of him) in my signature for years.

They go like this:

"The recreational value of a head of game is inverse to the artificiality of its origin"

"No prize is greater than the effort taken to acheive it"

He died in 1948.
_________________________
"The recreational value of a head of game is inverse to the artificiality of its origin"

"No prize is greater than the effort taken to acheive it"

- Aldo Leopold, The Father of Wildlife Management



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