changing game

tripod3

tripod3

New member
I've been noticing a change in hunting the last couple years and hear mention of the same in some threads.
Well after talk of a couple incidences and witnessing another, it is starting to make more sense.

After seeing a coyote shot at about a thousand yards across a fenceline, it changed the term of fence stretching quite a bit to me.
Recently I've been noticing tracks in the snow on private ground but never see anybody or a rig.
So today I hear about guys going in one parcel then trespassing into the next closed parcel and hunting with thermals.

This opens the floodgates to many many problems that I think are affecting me and could in a short time push me to a smaller game.
I also wonder how long before thermals and cans will eliminate legal big game before daylight.
Can't imagine what the game wardens are up against or how many calls 911 will start getting.

I've always loved new technology even if it was cost prohibitive.
This time may prove somewhat distasteful with ethics taking a backseat.
 
I think of it the same way I do gun control. Good guys with thermal,night vision and suppressors will do good things. Bad guys with them will not. The same guys shooting big game with the aid of night vision,thermal and suppressors are the same guys that would do it without those things. That's why not being able to hunt at night is an idiotic,outdated law that makes 0 sense.

If you can't beat them,join them.

I know a guy that's shot more deer at night than he has during the day. It's not and never has been legal to even shoot a skunk at night in Oklahoma. That don't mean I'd shoot a deer at night if I was able to predator hunt with that equipment for a few reasons. First reason, deer hunting sucks. Second reason, that's illegal.
 
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Im on the fence about the thermal deal. Its kinda like turkey hunters. You dont know they are there and they go wherever they want and no one knows.

I did buy a thermal scope and set up a night rig since it just became legal in Arkansas and Kansas. I guide so I need to be knowledgeable about it. Ive never night hunted in my life so I am still learning. Here is my observations so far.

1. Its easy, and great for novice hunters who cant call them in the daytime.
2. If you so choose, you can hunt anywhere you want. This lets you tap into virgin coyotes since you cant call them in daytime.
3. You can just drive around the dirt roads scanning and just shoot them from the road, since you cant call them in the daytime.
4. You can post big piles of coyotes on Facebook, since you cant call them in the daytime.

It is a very effective way to kill coyotes, that is for sure. Especially if you cant call them in the daytime.
smile.gif


On a serious note: It is good for those spots you have kinda burnt up or have problem coyotes that are call shy. Ive called spots that I cant buy a coyote anymore and have 5 come in at once. Since I cant call them in the daytime.

If I had my rathers I would outlaw it.
 
As the price of thermal continues to drop into the average Joe's reach, we'll see more and more pics of Big Bucks posted on social media by our friends and neighbors who were kept honest by the laws of nature and the animals ability to adapt. Here in Ohio we have gone to a telephone check in system (aka honor system)which left a large loophole for people to circumvent the regs. Now a person makes a temp tag on slip of paper, transports deer home, shuts garage door and at this point has the option to call and report the kill/buy another $30 (doe only if checking a buck) tag, OR they butcher it themselves save $30 and go out the next night for a bigger buck...
Honest people will only be honest when they fear confrontation from their peers..The old tag system required someone to physically show the deer to a local person amongst other hunters and I assure you a warden was called when people checked does with "broken off" antlers, rifle holes in archery season and ice cold deer first thing in the morning without a decent story..
Thermal and NV allows people who would not do risky things to consider them when they understand the chances of them being caught has been removed.
Every evening I call out a bunch of guys in our area with Thermal/NV on their crossbows..They claim they are night coyote hunting for the challenge of it...or to minimize the noise because neighbors complained..Pure Lies..I stand my ground and tell them to show me one kill etc..nothing. In fact I recently called out a guy who posted his brand new Ravin Xbow and ATN 4k...in the background was his garage/pole building window with a feeder about 20 yds from the window.. I called BS and his response was trying to intimidate me.. The funny part is the amount of guys who don't comprehend that anything you say on forums can be used against you. So considering he's never participated in any Predator conversations/threads on that forum, my suspicion is that he thought it was in an OK place where everyone accepts his behavior..
Just making my point, that we see/hear of people we suspect/are certain are cheaters online all the time...yet nowadays how many of us just turn away and pretend they know nothing because it might require effort or risk shame if found out they were a tattletale..
I see lots of guys I know have Thermal/NV and see posts of Big Bucks on FB. Everyone knows what they've done..and I'd be the first to drop a dime on that person if I even heard a rumor of them doing it..
 
Originally Posted By: btech29Im on the fence about the thermal deal. Its kinda like turkey hunters. You dont know they are there and they go wherever they want and no one knows.

I did buy a thermal scope and set up a night rig since it just became legal in Arkansas and Kansas. I guide so I need to be knowledgeable about it. Ive never night hunted in my life so I am still learning. Here is my observations so far.

1. Its easy, and great for novice hunters who cant call them in the daytime.
2. If you so choose, you can hunt anywhere you want. This lets you tap into virgin coyotes since you cant call them in daytime.
3. You can just drive around the dirt roads scanning and just shoot them from the road, since you cant call them in the daytime.
4. You can post big piles of coyotes on Facebook, since you cant call them in the daytime.

It is a very effective way to kill coyotes, that is for sure. Especially if you cant call them in the daytime.
smile.gif


On a serious note: It is good for those spots you have kinda burnt up or have problem coyotes that are call shy. Ive called spots that I cant buy a coyote anymore and have 5 come in at once. Since I cant call them in the daytime.

If I had my rathers I would outlaw it.

In all fairness you could do any of that with a spotlight and be just as productive. Thermal is expensive so if I were able to hunt at night I'd be old schooling it with a spotlight and a kill light on my rifle. I've night hunted and in places like Texas where they have had a lot of pressure at night it's just as hard calling them in as it is during the day. And even in places that are new to it like Kansas the coyotes always circle downwind, always.

Yes you can hide a lot of mistakes at night but if you suck at coyote huntin,you suck at coyote huntin. There's no hiding that.
 
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I have some really good thermals. I have seen thousands of deer in them but very few bucks. And the bucks I saw were pretty dang close. My point is unless the bucks are close close I can’t see antlers. How many trophy bucks sit there at 50 yards even at night? I haven’t seen one big buck at night through thermal.

I think the idea more big bucks are going to be poached because of thermal is completely false. NV maybe? I haven’t used it but assume you can see detail like that better and further away.
 
Night hunting coyotes here is legal, spotlighting during big game season might get you in trouble.
There are caliber restrictions during big game season depending on open tag.
It is illegal to fly same day you hunt as it gives an advantage.
Thermal could easily help locate a bedded/hiding big game animals that people walk by within feet during daylight.
I am in favor of thermal/nv use but have already seen some effects of it being used right and wrong in my area.
I think it is too easy for some that can afford it to break a bunch of laws and never learn how to hunt.
It's often the cheaters that cause more laws to be enacted.
 
The road hunters piss me off more than anyone. I have had more than a few stands ruined when I am out a dead end road and had someone drive past my truck and through an area that I am calling. I personally would turn around and say first come first serve. But some people are just ignorant and don’t care.
 
Originally Posted By: dirtytoughI have some really good thermals. I have seen thousands of deer in them but very few bucks. And the bucks I saw were pretty dang close. My point is unless the bucks are close close I can’t see antlers. How many trophy bucks sit there at 50 yards even at night? I haven’t seen one big buck at night through thermal.

I think the idea more big bucks are going to be poached because of thermal is completely false. NV maybe? I haven’t used it but assume you can see detail like that better and further away.
Most guys around here don't have cash for Thermal, but can easily afford a Wraith or ATN NV. Some do have Thermal but those guys are most likely actual Coyote Hunters and mostly using as scanners with NV on their xbow.

They just claim they are coyote hunting with their Xbow...and everyone knows they are point blank liars.
 
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My $.02 worth. I've seen a lot of poaching over the years because I spend a lot of time camping out in the sticks. Muzzleloader season in western WA at night I'd see lights flashing around and more shots than during the day. Up in MN my beaver camp was out in the sticks and trucks would by all night shining the fields, shots were common. My house was on a hill and the game warden would sit on my hill at night and watch for lights across the countryside. Thermals, nightvision and cans just make things easier for the poacher and harder for the warden, even landowner that used to call in when they saw lights or heard shots don't know what is happening outside their doors any more.

I PERSONALLY think nightvision and cans should be restricted to private lands or public lands by permit only in areas where control work is NEEDED.

I have no problem with cans during daylight hours

I'm a coyote hunter, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they set a season on coyotes on PUBLIC lands.

I have thick skin.
 
I dont care about people poaching deer. I dont want them poaching coyotes. Call them day and night and eventually they wont come anymore in either.

Whats wrong with just hunting them the old fashion way? Nothing beats a hard charging daytime coyote.

Im getting to be one of those "purists" I use to laugh at. The ones that wouldnt even drag a coyote because it might mess up the fur. lol
 
Originally Posted By: AWSMy $.02 worth. I've seen a lot of poaching over the years because I spend a lot of time camping out in the sticks. Muzzleloader season in western WA at night I'd see lights flashing around and more shots than during the day. Up in MN my beaver camp was out in the sticks and trucks would by all night shining the fields, shots were common. My house was on a hill and the game warden would sit on my hill at night and watch for lights across the countryside. Thermals, nightvision and cans just make things easier for the poacher and harder for the warden, even landowner that used to call in when they saw lights or heard shots don't know what is happening outside their doors any more.

I PERSONALLY think nightvision and cans should be restricted to private lands or public lands by permit only in areas where control work is NEEDED.

I have no problem with cans during daylight hours

I'm a coyote hunter, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they set a season on coyotes on PUBLIC lands.

I have thick skin.

That seems like a slippery slope. If the antis even so much as think of banning predator hunting the first thing most of us would bring up is how we control their population. So where exactly is control work needed? Not out in the middle of nowhere which is where I hunt. I don't know about you but I don't want anyone telling me where I "need" to hunt. Because one of these days people with that same mindset might tell you that you don't need to "control" populations of coyotes out there in the New Mexico desert.

Before you know it you're shooting at card board cut outs of coyotes with a sling shot in your backyard. That sounds like fun.....not.

The less rules there are the better whether it's gun control or hunting. The more laws there are to abide by the more there will be. Less laws,less room for error.

Be careful what you wish for when you start wishing. Might shoot yourself in the foot.

Personally I wish people would mind their own business and stop sitting around worrying about what another guy is shooting,when he's shooting it,what equipment he's using and where. Just go hunt and don't worry about it. If you ain't killin coyotes I'd bet money it ain't that guys fault.
 
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With all the poaching mentioned in this thread I’m sure there are lots of videos and pics of it? Poachers are going to poach whether it’s with a spotlight, thermal, out of season, wrong weapon, etc.

This is like saying all guns should be banned because someone else murdered someone with one. According to this thread there is more poaching from thermal and NV, but zero proof, we should ban it. Copy copy.

Tripod Idk if you’ve used thermal or not. But I don’t think it works quite like you think. Sure I can see a part of a bedded
deer if it’s visible. Unless it’s the head and ears sticking up how do I know it’s a deer and not just a warm patch of dirt like the 50 other shiny spots? If I’m daytime coyote hunting I don’t use thermal. I use normal binos. And I use what I think is advantageous. I don’t use binos because I’m a purist.

Dumb thread is dumb
 
Originally Posted By: dirtytoughWith all the poaching mentioned in this thread I’m sure there are lots of videos and pics of it? Poachers are going to poach whether it’s with a spotlight, thermal, out of season, wrong weapon, etc.

This is like saying all guns should be banned because someone else murdered someone with one. According to this thread there is more poaching from thermal and NV, but zero proof, we should ban it. Copy copy.

Tripod Idk if you’ve used thermal or not. But I don’t think it works quite like you think. Sure I can see a part of a bedded
deer if it’s visible. Unless it’s the head and ears sticking up how do I know it’s a deer and not just a warm patch of dirt like the 50 other shiny spots? If I’m daytime coyote hunting I don’t use thermal. I use normal binos. And I use what I think is advantageous. I don’t use binos because I’m a purist.

Dumb thread is dumb

Awful strong unfounded grasping opinions there, sounds like you may not be a qualified hunter with your representations of little knowledge.
Maybe your game dept offers some courses on game identification and you could improve yourself and your dumb, dumb opinions.
 
I've used thermal and I've never mistaken anything that wasn't alive for something that was. The only thing that has got my heart rate up because it wasn't there one second but was the next was a big owl. But it didn't take long to figure out what it was.

If you shoot a deer at night it's not an accident. I've heard of people accidentally shooting things that weren't their target species with lights but there's ways around that too. Don't shoot until you know exactly what it is. That same rule applies whether it's day or night. If you're not 100% sure, don't shoot it. If you have decent equipment and you know what you're doing you're not gonna shoot a cow or a deer or an owl or anything else except what you're trying to shoot.

It's just like anything else. Use some common sense and you'll be fine. I know common sense isn't common. But you can't worry about what everyone else is doing. I'm responsible for my own actions.If someone else shoots somethin they ain't supposed to that's on them. That's their bad not mine.

But to want something banned because it might get a deer or two poached is a little ridiculous. Criminals don't care when or where that animal is or what time it is. If they can go kill it they're going to. You don't think they couldn't cross a fence during the day time and walk in so far you probably wouldn't even hear their gun shot if it wasn't suppressed? People shoot fake deer the game wardens set out in the daylight all the time. It don't matter to them.
 
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Honest people will be honest and those who aren't won't. No need to make more laws that will only punish the honest in the end as those who aren't honest won't follow them anyway.

 
Originally Posted By: tripod3I've been noticing a change in hunting the last couple years and hear mention of the same in some threads.
Well after talk of a couple incidences and witnessing another, it is starting to make more sense.

After seeing a coyote shot at about a thousand yards across a fenceline, it changed the term of fence stretching quite a bit to me.
Recently I've been noticing tracks in the snow on private ground but never see anybody or a rig.
So today I hear about guys going in one parcel then trespassing into the next closed parcel and hunting with thermals.

This opens the floodgates to many many problems that I think are affecting me and could in a short time push me to a smaller game.
I also wonder how long before thermals and cans will eliminate legal big game before daylight.
Can't imagine what the game wardens are up against or how many calls 911 will start getting.

I've always loved new technology even if it was cost prohibitive.
This time may prove somewhat distasteful with ethics taking a backseat.


I'm not going to disagree with this one bit. Not even a little. There are numerous things we can do to absolve some issues that may arise.

I've been a part in opening the door to allow "sportsmen" to legally use this kind of equipment. In our state it was basically restricted use only available to Landowners/operators. I was contacted regularly by people who didn't think it was fair only Landowners, Cattle Operators etc. could access this equipment to hunt with.

Personally I didn't care, I was happy, I'm a landowner and can get permission from every neighbor here who knows what I do, to come kill Coyotes under the cover of darkness. Trust, goes a long way.

I was almost pressured enough by groups who wanted access and the option to hunt at night, (don't get me wrong I didn't have to) BUT I went back and we introduced, and passed legislation allowing the average joe to acquire thermal, get permission and hunt. WHY? I deal with close to 100 Elk hunters every year who express their gratitude and appreciation for us giving them a place to hunt, do we have to, no. Do I sit back and realize that their office cubical, or dentist office, or truck cab, or dealership lot gets old and think it would be nice to allow them some access, yes.

I do not know sometimes why I go out of my way, when it would save me time, headaches, and money just to not help.

Sometimes I don't think I should of helped, when I see some of the $hit show posts, of a Coyote that deserves a much better death, than what I'm seeing posted on FB of these Coyotes that may as well be a pin cushion.

Last funny comment I had on one of our Day filmed Quads, was You guys have all that fancy gear, 6-7K dollar rifles, Coyotes running right in front of you and you won't even take a running shot.

I should of just replied good one. Instead I had to elaborate, tell them our goal isn't to make running shots, it's to work them, get em close, get them to stop, make a precision shot, and do it on camera. Without being cocky, I told him to watch a little and you might just learn a little. I think about it every set we make, every Coyote we take, just how many other hunters out there would completely botch it by not calming down and making a confident shot.
THEN I watch it happen at night... There are going to be a lot of really really REALLY smart Coyotes in the near future.

KillBOX is now trademarked.
 
A lot of the arguments I am hearing about thermals/night hunting causing more poaching is the same arguments people use to try and shut down concealed carry or even gun ownership.

“If you are allowed to carry a gun in a convenience store or bank, you are going to be more likely to rob the place!”

Does that make sense? No.

Do lights or thermals make it easier for poachers to do what they do? Yes, of course. But it doesn’t make more poachers.
 
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