Cartridges that don't make sense.

OKRattler

Well-known member
I'm sure some will disagree with me but I've noticed within the past few years there have been all kinds of new cartridges developed. Some don't necessarily make sense to me. What do some of these new cartridges, especially in 6mm do that another won't? From a hunting standpoint it makes more sense to me to stick with the basic cartridges available. I'm not a bench rest shooter so maybe that's where they do make a difference even though it's probably a very slight difference.

I'm not hatin on them. If that's your thing that's cool. It just seems like at this point people are trying to fill a void that isn't there.
 
I have quite few different chamberings in the AR15, a couple wildcats included.

Did I expect one to do anything significantly better than the other? No, I did not.

But now with the ammo and loading supplies shortages, I can shoot what I can find whether it be .224, 6mm, 6.5mm, 6.8mm, .308, etc., etc.

I suppose some of us look at it as a hobby and enjoy working with various different chamberings even though one might not be head and shoulders above another... it's just fun IMO.
 
Sure looks like the 6.8 Western will solve all hunting needs.
If it stays around for 5 years it may knock one of the boring old mainstays out.
Somehow I doubt it though and a couple old calibers will be staying around here.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3Sure looks like the 6.8 Western will solve all hunting needs.
If it stays around for 5 years it may knock one of the boring old mainstays out.
Somehow I doubt it though and a couple old calibers will be staying around here.

Why 6.8, I would believe the 7mm would have more and better bullets selections?
 
Doing these things is how ammuition and rifle making companies try to stay in business. Some decisions are good and some aren't, but they are made on market research which shows "what might sell".

If you're interested, dig in.... if not move on without any in-depth psychological analysis of things that we know little about in terms of the decisions made by others .........

That is my approach to these things, and so far in my life I haven't lost any sleep that I'm aware of because of any of these decisions that I might not agree with.
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Cartridges are alot like cars, change sell things.

All cartridges make sense in the eyes of the designer. If even minute changes makes the designer feel the cartridge is better it is a success. I shoot the 22-204, 6mm204 and 25-204 at the time I designed/built them the 222 Rem Mag, 6x47 and 257 Kimber were close but the 222 Rem Mag cases were like hens teeth and and the 257 Kimber took custom dies and fireforming, plus I could load all three with the same 204 Ruger bushing die, no custom dies, no fireforming needed.
 
For example, the 6mm creedmoor should not be any better than the 243. However, when you talk seating depth, twist rates, longer bullets or throats, magazine length, etc. there can be advantages. Some too small for the average shooter to take advantage of. But we like to think or or know we can. If you aren't shooting long range, whatever you decide that is, the old reliable are still really reliable.
 
Originally Posted By: AWSCartridges are alot like cars, change sell things.

All cartridges make sense in the eyes of the designer. If even minute changes makes the designer feel the cartridge is better it is a success. I shoot the 22-204, 6mm204 and 25-204 at the time I designed/built them the 222 Rem Mag, 6x47 and 257 Kimber were close but the 222 Rem Mag cases were like hens teeth and and the 257 Kimber took custom dies and fireforming, plus I could load all three with the same 204 Ruger bushing die, no custom dies, no fireforming needed.

A faster,flatter shooting,fur friendly cartridge was what you were after I assume?

I understand for some tinkering with different ones is fun. That does make sense. I was just curious what one had that another doesn't as far as hunting goes.

But as Z mentioned I'm not a long range shooter so some of these cartridges wouldn't really have much of an advantage over something I could find just about anywhere. I figured that's where some of these off the wall cartridges really come into play.
 
A designers job is to come up with something new to make sales. The more they can convince you that you need it the poorer you are and the richer they are.
 
Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiOriginally Posted By: tripod3Sure looks like the 6.8 Western will solve all hunting needs.
If it stays around for 5 years it may knock one of the boring old mainstays out.
Somehow I doubt it though and a couple old calibers will be staying around here.

Why 6.8, I would believe the 7mm would have more and better bullets selections?

I was surprised to see 6.8 myself and automatically thought they were trying to make a new improved .270. Well it is a shortened .270 WSM.
Another sliver of the market that has not been too active for awhile. Lookout 6.5 Creedmoor!
I'll stick with the trusty .300 WM.
 
I think the heavy bullet for caliber craze has a lot to do with it also. Seems everyone wants to shoot heavy bullets in small calibers. Not me, I like light and fast. But, to each their own.
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogI think the heavy bullet for caliber craze has a lot to do with it also. Seems everyone wants to shoot heavy bullets in small calibers. Not me, I like light and fast. But, to each their own.

To a large degree I think it has a lot to do with what you are using the gun for and what it's chambered in. The folks shooting 600 - 600++ are almost always going to go with the high BC heavy for caliber bullets. The predator/coyote shooters typically on the average don't regularly shoot those distances so usually that crowd is more looking for laser beam out to around 400-ish. That's not to say you don't get the occasional shot at a coyote well past 400 but they typically aren't as common as the ones inside of 400. I suppose it's probably best to just have some setup for each.
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The 6.8 came about from the military was looking for something with more knock down to replace the 5.56. then they abandoned the idea, so they sold it to the civilian market.
 
It is all about marketing and the manufacturers all be under pressure to stay relevant and not be leapfrogged by their competitors. That combined with the general thinking today that "heavy for caliber" is the new, cool thing is my belief why we are seeing the market as it is.

I am still in the "light for caliber" and "speed" mentality for most of my firearms. That goes against the grain for all of these new ones being developed today.

I don't dislike them, it's just how I see the market as it is today.
 
I think alot of it started with Weatherby! Folks wanting Weatherby velocities on a standard head while skipping the expense.. Nothing wrong with some of the new cartridges IMO! But I think its got a little crazy trying to re-invent the wheel.

I shoot a couple centerfire rifles regularly.. Nothing fancy! But I feel better about shooting long range with a rig I'm accustomed to.
 
Many of the new cartridges dont necessarily differ as much as the associating specs for the cartridge i.e. the standard twist rate and accompanying bullets. A .243 Win with the right powder will run with or slightly outperform a 6mm Creedmoor but the creed will push ahead due to its heavy for caliber bullets and faster twist.

Its all about efficiency. Burning the least amount of powder possible for a desired effect. Its also just simple business economics. You want people to buy your new rifle? Sell em on a new cartridge too! This generates sales and boosts everything that comes with it. People get bored with their stale old .30-06's or .270's. Everyone likes to get the latest and greatest, its the American way.

I know a lot of people who switched to a 6.5 Creedmoor when the hype was enormous. It really is a good round for our area of PA, not too many shots are over 100 yards and its mild recoil make it a pretty good little deer cartridge. The fact that a box of ammo that used to be $22-$25 is now $60-$100 shows that theres a huge demand for it.

I personally like oddball stuff or stuff that I know works. I dont really care what a company claims, if it is intriguing or proven to work for my purpose, I'll build or buy one and try it.

I like that people are innovating and as technology advances and we learn, stuff does get better. Like car engines, my 06 Subaru gets 30+ mpg average. 40 years ago, that was unheard of and now, thats not even that impressive.

The 6.8 Western is the newest kid on the block, catering to the short, fast magnum crowd. Soon people will dump the 6.5 PRC and go get a 6.8 Western. These new cartridges also breed better components and rifles. Hopefully we will see more .277" bullets on the market too. The biggest reason for its inception is that .270 Win lacks a fast enough twist to stabilize a heavier .277 bullet so a new cartridge was born. Good move too, Remington found out more than once that improving a standard cartridge can confuse regular people who dont understand it. The 7mm Express and .244 Rem come to mind.
 
Originally Posted By: BearThe 6.8 came about from the military was looking for something with more knock down to replace the 5.56. then they abandoned the idea, so they sold it to the civilian market.

I thought the military version was the .277 Fury, same length /diameter case of .308 with lighter 135-140 bullets.
The 6.8 Western is just a tweaked .270 WSM with heavy bullet and fast twist.
Just a slivers dif here and there and a new cartridge is born so those that purchased a 6.5 prc can sell them with the Creedmoor to fund a Western and maybe a new scope too.
 
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