What would you do #6

B

BrianID

Member
This is my 2nd stand from a couple days ago.

You are on public land that is heavily called. About 5 minutes into rabbit distress hand call you spot movement about 800 yards out where the red arrow starts. It is a hard charging coyote coming your way along with a 2nd coyote right behind it. The first stand of the day already produced a big male coyote and you get a second rush of adrenaline from two hard charges coming on the second stand of the day.

fullsizeoutput-5b5.jpg


Unexpectedly both coyotes suddenly stop when they are about 500 yards out where the red circle is. At this point I'm not sure if they saw something they didn't like. I doubt they saw me. Did they smell me? There is no real wind this morning but occasionally I feel a light 1 or 2 mph breeze that could blow my scent their direction but I'm really doubting they smelled me from 500 yards away without any significant wind. Did they not like one of the sounds I made? After they were stopped at 500 yards for about a minute I tried a couple more rabbit screams but they don't seem convinced to come in. After 5 minutes and some additional rabbit screams they still seem unconvinced about coming in.

What do you do?

#1 Try a different sound? If so, what sound?

#2 Take a long shot?

#3 Try to sneak closer to the coyotes? Unfortunately this would be difficult because they would likely see and or hear you but you could always try it

#4 Try something else?

I'll post what I did and the coyotes did in a couple days. What happened was really unexpected on this stand.
 
Based on how the shadows lay I'm betting on a glare of some sort spooking them. I will be interested to hear what happened. Hand calling would limit my sounds as I only have 4 calls but I'd probably try them all, then try the shot.
 
I agree with trying to coax them in...I might have tried some rodent squeaks, then maybe some pup distress. If that all failed...SEND IT!
 
I am a bit confused, but is there anyone concerned regarding the buildings/people in the background? While I get we are talking about scenarios, but what of safety? It a rifle round were to ricochet, wouldn't there be a hazard to the people downrange?

Meanwhile, I agree with what has been said, change up the call, including a pup distress.
 
Not given the set up. The angle that he is shooting from and the relative distance to the buildings looks to me to be well within a safe margin. According to the story, the coyotes are 800 yards out at the arrow and 500 in the circle. So if you flop that distance it looks to me to be over twice that distance from the start of the fields.

Shooter on---Send It!
 
Originally Posted By: NevadaZielmeisterI am a bit confused, but is there anyone concerned regarding the buildings/people in the background? While I get we are talking about scenarios, but what of safety? It a rifle round were to ricochet, wouldn't there be a hazard to the people downrange?

Fair question to ask. The picture makes things look closer than they appear. The red circle is about 500 yards away, confirmed with my range finder. I measured out the distance to the fields and buildings on a map. Closest field/private property was about 1 mile from my calling location and nearest building was 1.4 miles from my location. Given the downhill angle and I'm shooting 40 gr Nosler Ballistic tips, I would argue the risk to anyone a mile or more away is close to nonexistent. If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise I would be happy to listen because safety is much more important than getting a coyote.

Originally Posted By: tripod3May be a boundary they hesitate to cross, coax and shoot.

This is what I thought initially but I was still hoping I could coax them a little closer.

Multiple people suggested pup distress. This is what I would have tried but I messed up the day before and left my fox pro on and the batteries were dead. I only had hand calls.

I considered taking the shot but I had my 223 wylde with me shooting 40gr nosler ballistic tips at 3900 fps. Bullet velocity at 500 yards would only be about 2000 fps. That isn't going to hit them near as hard as it would at 200 yards when the bullet is going over 3000 fps.

I was also greedy and overconfident when I saw two coyotes coming in. I thought I was going to get both of them and was planing accordingly. The closer I can get a double to come before I take the first shot, the better my chances of getting both.

After about 5 minutes of them holding up at 500 yards I had a really big surprise. To the right of me where the yellow arrow is pointed I heard a gun shot followed by pup distress.
fullsizeoutput-5b9.jpg


I never saw the other coyote hunter or coyote they shot at but I'm guessing they were 500 to 800 yards to the right of me and about 800-1000 yards from the coyotes I was watching. I believe I was on the stand before they were because I would have driven past their parked vehicle on my way to my stand and I never heard any other calling. They could have have been using some really soft sounds but it was one of those dead quite mornings and I could hear their pup distress sound loud and clear. The other coyote hunter followed with a 2nd shot about a minute later. I'm guessing the other hunter walked out to their stand sight and heard me calling and decided they were already there so they may as well watch the show and I called a coyote right past them so they shot it. I don't blame them at all and it is part of hunting on public land.

The two coyotes that were in front of me stayed put after the other hunter shot. They didn't respond to the other guys pup distress and didn't run off. I tried a couple howls and a few rabbit cries over the next 10 minutes and they came as close as 450 yards but didn't want to come any closer. If I had my bolt action 6mm Creedmoor I think I would have taken the shot and feel fairly confident that I could have gotten at least 1 of the coyotes. It was just too far for me to shoot with my 223 and 40gr bullets even though there was no wind. I also really thought I had a chance of calling them in closer. I would rather not shoot, than risk taking a shot I'm not confident in.

My theory is that the coyotes held up for one of two reasons.

#1 They hit their property boundary and were not going to come any closer.

#2 They spotted the other coyote hunter walking into his stand. Very likely this guy could have been skyline to these coyotes and even at 800 yards, it may have been enough to stop them. The sun was at the coyotes back and would have made a skyline hunter "glow".

This is a heavily hunted area and I'm sure these coyotes have heard multiple calls over the last couple months. Once they realized something was wrong, they were smart to hold up and not come any closer.

After watching these two coyotes for 15 minutes they eventually walked off the direction of the purple arrow. I tried another stand about a mile that direction 30 minutes later but I didn't see any coyotes come in.
 
Last edited:
Another interesting part of this story is that I made my first stand of the morning in what I would estimate was 800 yards to the South of where I believe the other hunter was. I killed a coyote on my 1st stand about 30 minutes before the other hunter took a shot. I guess this one time I should have only moved 1/2 mile north instead of a full mile north to my next stand.
 
Last edited:
Well here is an idea of a ricochet, using a tracer round at night. You can see how it leaves the target at a 45 degree angle and at that point, it going to go a long ways:



Personally, I would not feel comfortable shooting towards buildings like that. I understand that the camera might make them seem closer, but rifle bullets can travel miles. There have been so many irresponsible shooters out here in Reno (Washoe County) that the County created congested areas (zones) in which people are no longer allowed to shoot in. It was getting so bad with people's buildings getting hit and windows getting broken that the Sheriff's department had to step in. Sad really.
 
If you wouldn’t hunt that spot based on buildings that are a couple miles away you would be limiting your options in a lot of cases. You would have a hard time hitting those buildings if you tried let alone by ricochet.

I see no issue with this set up at all.
 
Last edited:
NevadaZeilmeister,

I've shot tracers and have watched them skip. That is a good point. I would never shoot FMJ bullets in a direction that this picture was taken, but I still wouldn't hesitate to shoot a coyote with a varmint bullet. There is a difference in ricochet risk with FMJ vs varmint bullets. Do you think it is safe to assume that every one of those Washoe County bullets that hit a building or window was a FMJ?

I was set up looking to the North and these coyotes came from the East. I wouldn't hesitate to set up in the same place again unless someone could convince me this is really dangerous.

I only took one shot that morning and there were no buildings for several miles behind that coyote if I had missed. There was a dirt road a couple miles behind that coyote though.

For me to shoot my 40 gr bullet 2000 yards I would have to aim around 350 feet above my target. Trying to ricochet a varmint bullet at 200 yards or 500 yards and having it travel more than a mile downrange I don't think is possible. I do believe it is possible with a FMJ though.

The military lists the maximum range of the 5.56 to be 3600 meters and based on all the data I've read, there would be without a doubt no risk to anything 3+ miles away if I want to keep things completely safe. So should I only make stands that have no roads or builds within 3 miles of the direction I'm shooting? Have you ever shot a coyote that had a road or building within 3 miles of the direction you were firing?

There is always a possibility that there could be a person, cattle, building, road or something else downrange a mile you don't know about. The other hunter that set up and shot less than a mile from me on this stand is a perfect example of this. In less open areas it is arguably even more dangerous because there could be a person only a couple hundred yards away that you don't see. The only really safe thing to do is not shoot a gun ever. There is also a risk every time I drive my truck that I could run into someone else. Me driving out to call coyotes was likely a greater danger to the public than if I had taken a 500 yard shot at one of these coyotes. We will never eliminate all the risks in life but we should do our best to minimize them. In this situation I feel like I did more than an acceptable job of minimizing the risk to others. If you or anyone else can show me proof of a 40 gr varmint bullet ricochet and hitting an unintended target at 1.4 miles or more I would be happy to read it.
 
Brian--I think your set up was fine. I too would not worry about a ricochet in your stand. Looked to me like you had plenty of room. The video that NevadaZeilmeister posted was apples to cantaloupes...a guy shooting from a standing position at something that we cannot identify in the video and then comparing to your stand, well, for me there wasn't much to compare. If you are worried about a ricochet how would you ever take a shot? Unless you are getting a coyote to freeze right in front of a 20 foot high dirt backstop, no one ever knows 100% about what is/is not out there. We do the best we can to hunt as safely as we can. You made some good points about how far bullets travel and that is if we fire them at a max angle, not after striking the ground. I had no problem with your set up.

As for hunting close to buildings, I do it all the time. Coyotes love farms, neighborhoods, etc. Gotta go where the coyotes are.
 
I agree no worries with ricochet on a 40 gr varmint bullet, not that far for sure. Tracers, yeah I've seen them bounce seemingly forever. Scary and that's why I have no use for fmj's. I once tried some tracers at a public range with a 8 or 10" dirt berm. All of a sudden there was smoke coming from behind the berm. It was fall, everything was dry, and I ran 100 yards in record time and was lucky to get it stomped out, wearing loafers that day. My feet got pretty warm. It burned a circle about 8' across by the time I got there and was headed for a dry corn field. Btw, all bullets went thru the target, they all hit where I was aiming though a terrible group of course. Best I can figure the burning pellet came out of the bullet on impact and flung over the berm. Never have really figured it out. But it was the last tracer I've shot or will shoot.
 
Back
Top