Thermal monocular

S

superDUECE22

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Looking for a scanner to use in conjunction with my super hogster. Budget around $2k and would like something with minimum 2-2.5 base mag as I hunt open terrain up north for coyotes. Axion key xm30 has peaked my interest because I don’t need all the recording features, WiFi or the app but the LCOS display is only rated down to 14degrees. Also have looked into the AGM ASP TM35-384. Any other options out there that I could look into or anybody purchase a new Bering phenom or pulsar helion and have a old one they’d be willing to sell.
 
Lots of threads of people not loving the Key model of the Axions specifically. I would look to the new XQ38 model if you really want to stick with the Axion shape.

You could go with a Hogster 25 and be just a little over 2. It could be a scope and a scanner option for you, and have a better image and 4 year warranty.
 
Just an FYI. I have used an Axion Key XM30 for a little over a year. I bought it right when they came out. It is great for what it is but very limited. The down fall of the scanner is the display. It is very weak visually based on its screen resolution through the eye piece. It works and does what is intended. Price wise they have come down and it is an option that will get the job done. Here it comes.....But....when you spend the majority of your time looking through a scanner and finally get to use your scope it's like "why can't I look through something like this all the time!". This is only about the Key XM30. Pulsar has the new ones out that have a better display. I sold my Axion today and am now looking at either the 35 or 25 Hogster for a scanner and backup. Just not sure which one I want. Decisions....The Phenom is a bit out of the price point I want to spend on a scanner though.
 
Originally Posted By: nortacI sold my Axion today and am now looking at either the 35 or 25 Hogster for a scanner and backup. Just not sure which one I want. Decisions....The Phenom is a bit out of the price point I want to spend on a scanner though. It really comes down to how often as a scanner and how often on the gun and the terrain. If you hunt tight areas, I would probably recommend the 25. If you hunt more open areas, then the 35. Either way, the 25 is typically a better scanner as the 35 has a 10.7° and it can be a little tight as a scanner.
 
Would like the axion xq38 but a little outta my price range. If I did end up going to that price range I’d probably just buy a hogster 25mm. Still would like to hear from somebody with personal experience or get my hands on the AGM ASP TM35-384 and the axion xm30s looks to be a pretty good little unit for a good price
 
I own an AGM35 that I use for scanning and a Super Hogster for shooting and its about as good as it gets for the money.
 
Kirsch, what do you think of the Prodigy Pro? I have 1 (had 2) XD19a's and a Helion XP28 and picked up the 38's lens when they their sale. Looks pretty decent on specs although FOV is more limited than I would like. Was looking at a used XQ28 but specs look better on the Phenom except for; again, FOV. But also would have warranty buying new.
Looks like they can be had for around $1995.
 

I'm waiting for the Pulsar Axion XQ38 LRF. I will field test it and see how I like it. I wish I could get it with a 640 core but if it's good at ranging it will probably be a keeper.




I am going to pair it with the new Pulsar XG50 (BAE 640 12 micron core) and see if makes for a good rig.

 
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Originally Posted By: case-nhKirsch, what do you think of the Prodigy Pro? I have not used one personally. However, they have the Flir Tau II core for a sensor, and I have used that in other thermals and was not impressed. Night Goggles doesn't carry the Prodigy. The Phenom is a major step up in virtually every way. I would go with a Hogster 25 personally before the Prodigy.
 
Agreed with kirsch on the prodigy, portion of the last post. I have yet to see the phenom, but the prodigy line is not good. The agm full size 384's are way better.

For the price you start looking at hogster 25 or 35 as a scanner and buddy scope.
 
Originally Posted By: nortacJust an FYI. I have used an Axion Key XM30 for a little over a year. I bought it right when they came out. It is great for what it is but very limited. The down fall of the scanner is the display. It is very weak visually based on its screen resolution through the eye piece. It works and does what is intended. Price wise they have come down and it is an option that will get the job done. Here it comes.....But....when you spend the majority of your time looking through a scanner and finally get to use your scope it's like "why can't I look through something like this all the time!". This is only about the Key XM30. Pulsar has the new ones out that have a better display. I sold my Axion today and am now looking at either the 35 or 25 Hogster for a scanner and backup. Just not sure which one I want. Decisions....The Phenom is a bit out of the price point I want to spend on a scanner though.


Lots of great comments here. My hunting partner bought the axion and immediately returned it. Compared to his rifle scope he could not see the distances that he would have liked. He was excited about the size and shape but it was not worth it for him.

I really like my Pulsar Helion XQ38F. I am getting ready to try out Bering options SH so I do not have an opinion yet on them, but from what everyone else is saying it sounds pretty hard to beat getting an R25 or R35 to have as a scanner/backup scope.

Stay away from any of the flir Scouts, you will be disappointed in those as well.
 
Gman757 said:
I'm waiting for the Pulsar Axion XQ38 LRF. I will field test it and see how I like it. I wish I could get it with a 640 core but if it's good at ranging it will probably be a keeper.

Gman, I'll be anxiously waiting for your review. I so wish they offered a Helion XP50 LRF. I really like the Pulsar LRF.
Click to expand...
 
I’m currently thinking about jumping into night hunting and eying up the hogster 35 ... do these units have any type of ranging feature that tells you distance to target? I can’t find any info on this.
 
Originally Posted By: Ricky BobbyI’m currently thinking about jumping into night hunting and eying up the hogster 35 ... do these units have any type of ranging feature that tells you distance to target? I can’t find any info on this. It has a stadiametric rangefinder. This is a device that you bracket an animal and based on standard sizes you get a range. This is not effective for coyotes. The only thermal units I know of that have an integrated laser rangefinder are the few Pulsar LRF models and ATN.
 
Originally Posted By: Kirsch It has a stadiametric rangefinder. This is a device that you bracket an animal and based on standard sizes you get a range. This is not effective for coyotes. The only thermal units I know of that have an integrated laser rangefinder are the few Pulsar LRF models and ATN.

I would strictly be coyote hunting with the unit. Does it create a problem not knowing the exact distance when hunting at night? Would this be an issue at all?
 
It is an issue that you can learn to work around. For me, I use a caliber that shoots flat so it isn't as important to judge distance as other calibers. Also, when I first started using thermal, I would measure every kill so I could get a general idea what a coyote looked like through the thermal scope.

Kirsch mentioned something a while ago about color variations that I've been using as a reference. I'll let him explain in case I misunderstood...
 
As you could see in the other post, yesterday I went to a major Pulsar dealer to buy the Thermion XP50 on behalf of a friend of mine. The sales engineer told me that they received 10 Axion 2 XQ38s and immediately sold them. The improvement in image quality of the Axion 2 XQ38 over the Axion XM30 is remarkable. It is almost comparable to the qualitative leap between Bering Phenom and Prodigy. I immediately booked an Axion XQ38 for another friend of mine. On this occasion I tried the Accolade 2 XP50 LRF binoculars again and was still amazed. Only one adjective: impressive!
The news I want to give to dear friends of predatorsmaster forum night hunters is this: in a short time you will be able to choose between 3 thermal scanners with built-in rangefinder: Accolade 2 XP50 LRF; Axion 2 XQ38 LRF; and Accolade 2 XQ38 LRF will arrive (very interesting for the quality / price ratio). If you need the rangefinder, as the Axion 2 XQ38 LRF has, you will have to forgo all the trinkets and whistles that Axion 2 XQ38 has (video recording, wi-fi and more). But pay attention to the FOV, a very important detail for you American night hunters: Accolade 2 XP50 LRF (12.4x9.3); Accolade 2 XQ38 LRF (likely 9.8x7.4); Axion 2 XQ38 LRF (9.8x7.4); Axion XM30 (7.3x5.5); Axion Key XM22 (10x7.5). Finally, let's talk about price: Axion 2 XQ38 € 2090 (with VAT) - € 1713 (without VAT). Axion 2XQ38 LRF € 2450 (with VAT) - € 2008 (without VAT).
 
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Having a rangefinder on your scanner is OK. It allows you to range landmarks such as a hill or a standing coyote. However, I move to my gun as soon as possible once I see a coyote. Yes, a coyote's eyesight is diminished in darkness, but don't be fooled into believing they can't see movement because they still can. If they couldn't, they couldn't catch their food at night. If you are using the rangefinder to tell distances, then you are probably waiting to move to your gun until you know the coyote is in comfortable shooting range. I am not saying this will cause you issues a lot, but it is a consideration that this late movement may spook coyotes. This is why a lot of people prefer to have the LRF on the gun for thermal hunting. However having it on a scanner is better than not at all.

For judging distance at night. Everyone gets excited when coyotes are coming or we wouldn't hunt coyotes, but let them come. I am probably guilty of not doing this as you see I typically stop coyotes at around the 125 yard mark, Pace off every shot after you start thermal hunting and you will start to get a really good idea of how big a coyote looks in your scope at different distances. If in doubt let the coyote or coyotes continue the approach. The one time to stop a coyote is when they are coming in "hot". It takes them awhile to stop, so stop calling and start yelling or whistling, or bark, etc because often they will run right past. Another exception to letting them come is if they are going to catch your wind. Then stop them before they get there. When a coyote starts taking up a significant portion of your scope, you will know it is time to stop them.

As for judging distance besides how big they look in the scope, what Rookiejx2 is referring to is something called color shading. This means you can see subtle heat variations in different parts of the body of the coyote. A coyote loses heat through it's head and lower legs the most. When a coyote is all one color, on most thermals, it is past the shooting distance where you can hold right on your spot. Again, different thermals are different, this is a general statement. I can tell you the animal detail is so sensitive on the Super Hogster that I had to change my yardages a bit coming from a Pulsar XQ38 and then a Flir PTS536.

Here are 4 examples:
#1
coyote.5.jpg


#2
coyote1.jpg


#3
coyote2.jpg


#4
coyote3.jpg


Again, I feel the SH's 12 µm sensor hurts my examples here a little bit. In these 4 images, #1 you see virtually no shading. This coyote is around 400 yards. #2 you can start to see a little shading but it isn't prominent. The yardage on this coyote is around 325 yards. The yardage on #3 is at about 250 yards, and now shading is evident. #4 is about 150 yards. By the time, the coyote is at #4, there is no question it is in range.

How would I shoot these 4 coyotes? With my flat-shooting 22-250 zeroed at 1" high at 100. I would hold on the ears for coyote 1, right on the edge of the back for coyote #2, and hold right on where the brightest spot ends coming up the leg (this looks like the shoulder but it actually isn't) on coyote #3, and 4.
 
Thanks again for another fantastic tip on the shading Kirch I just got a hogster 35 and I will pay attention to the shading as I get some shots under it after I get healed up enough to hunt again . I have some good " known range " spots to start out with and watching shading will sure help guestimates on unknown terrain
 
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