Best thermal scope in the $3k-$3.5K range?

In regards to auto NUC, I turn my scope on at the beginning of the night before I get to the first stand and let it NUC until its heart is content. I turn it off when I get home. Occasionally, I will also manually NUC. I haven't had it NUC in the middle of a shot yet. I'm running an Anker battery pack and still have 1/4-1/2 power when I get home.

I also agree that Pulsar screwed up when they got rid of the Apex line. My partner has an XP50 and it's never had an issue. If/when he decides to get another thermal, he's already said it won't be a Pulsar since they don't have a budget friendly option.
 
When my Pulsar Apex XQ50 gives out (if it does) and my old Pulsar Quantum 19a scanner bites the dust, my next investment will be with Bering Optics in a SH Hogster and a Phenom scanner unless there is something a whole lot better that hits the market in between. I just don't see anything on the market currently that can compete image wise and price wise with Bering today.
 
Nortac,

What do you use the inclinometer for?
I'm thinking at normal thermal shooting distances the incline/decline would be negligible with our flatter shooting coyote guns.
BUT....I don't have much experience with thermals YET
smile.gif
 
Thanks Kirsch for the welcome.
As far as the NUC bit. I'm still getting use to the SH in that regard. for the most part, my habit in the past has been manual NUC. I keep the scope turned off.....scan with scanner until I find what I'm looking for.....turn on scope and shoot. Some nights I never turned the scope on. It started off rather difficult with the SH because of the start up time and the auto NUC. I'm getting use to it though. Just takes time to change habits.

I agree on the surroundings as far as the SH goes. We are not shooting at "surroundings". I just think the 12 micron core is diminishing that part of it. Seems odd but other 12 micron thermals including my scanner exhibit the same trait. The 17 micron cores seem to do better in that regard.


I do agree Pulsar had a winner with the Apex. That line just worked. It never needed to be updated or hassled with. I also never had any issue with holding zero. I can't say that for the XP50. Sad how a company will discontinue a quality product over another. Maybe the Apex worked too good for Pulsars other offering. I never used a Trail XQ50 so I cannot speak to that model compared to the Apex.

One thing I did not mention I like about the SH is the focus. It is pretty much a "set it and forget it" focus. I like that a lot! The Thermion regarding lots of adjustments to fine tune the detail.

Originally Posted By: Jason312Nortac,

What do you use the inclinometer for?
I'm thinking at normal thermal shooting distances the incline/decline would be negligible with our flatter shooting coyote guns.
BUT....I don't have much experience with thermals YET
smile.gif


Jason, I use the thermal for different types of hunting at different ranges for different types of animals. What I found in the past when shooting smaller species of animals over 100 yards if you are canted one way or the other while taking head shots there is a higher probability of a miss. It is hard to tell if you are level or not at night on a tripod. You think you are but it is hard to tell sometimes. The inclinometer in the SH resolves the issue of cant. It's basically having a scope level on your daytime scope with the addition of being able to tell slope too. I understand a lot of people think you cannot be super precise with a thermal. Well you can be and all the things associated with day time scopes apply to thermal as well for precision shots.

I do like my SH a lot and plan to keep it. Matter of fact I am thinking about getting another one. I like it that much. Is it perfect? No. I have yet to find any thermal that is perfect. But it gives me most of what the Apex gave me and more. The faults it has for the most part can be overcome with time and patience getting use to using it. I have had a number of kills on it but keep forgetting to record. LOL! I did manage to hit the button the last kill so one video is it. I'm still working on changing some of my old habits. I will get there.
 
Originally Posted By: nortacThanks Kirsch for the welcome.
As far as the NUC bit. I'm still getting use to the SH in that regard. for the most part, my habit in the past has been manual NUC. I keep the scope turned off.....scan with scanner until I find what I'm looking for.....turn on scope and shoot. Some nights I never turned the scope on. It started off rather difficult with the SH because of the start up time and the auto NUC. I'm getting use to it though. Just takes time to change habits. Yes, it totally makes sense if you have the Super Hogster off. I highly recommend keeping it on or at least in standby mode. If battery life is the issue, get a 5V battery pack like the TRB from Night Goggles, and you can leave it on all night if you want to. One more thing to mention is the current recording size is ridiculously small. 0.5GB of video for 1 hour of recording. You could record about 30 hours of video using the SH. I actually turn my recording on when a stand starts and turn it off when done. The scope automatically makes 10 minute files so starts a new video file every 10 minutes. This results in more editing after the fact to delete extra videos and trim smaller ones. However, it is less that I have to mess with during the heat of the moment with coyotes coming to the sound.

Originally Posted By: nortacI agree on the surroundings as far as the SH goes. We are not shooting at "surroundings". I just think the 12 micron core is diminishing that part of it. Seems odd but other 12 micron thermals including my scanner exhibit the same trait. The 17 micron cores seem to do better in that regard. FYI, this changes when you move to 640 res. The 640 res 12 µm like the new Bering Optics Phenom is nothing short of stunning.
 
Originally Posted By: Kirsch Yes, it totally makes sense if you have the Super Hogster off. I highly recommend keeping it on or at least in standby mode. If battery life is the issue, get a 5V battery pack like the TRB from Night Goggles, and you can leave it on all night if you want to. One more thing to mention is the current recording size is ridiculously small. 0.5GB of video for 1 hour of recording. You could record about 30 hours of video using the SH. I actually turn my recording on when a stand starts and turn it off when done. The scope automatically makes 10 minute files so starts a new video file every 10 minutes. This results in more editing after the fact to delete extra videos and trim smaller ones. However, it is less that I have to mess with during the heat of the moment with coyotes coming to the sound.

Purchased one this week. posted in the pic above. I haven't had a chance to use it. This weekend should be good!

Originally Posted By: KirschFYI, this changes when you move to 640 res. The 640 res 12 µm like the new Bering Optics Phenom is nothing short of stunning.

100% agree on the 640x480 12 micron. Different ballgame. But then it goes back to native mag and price point.
 
Tons of knowledge here guys thanks for the conversation.

As for the comments on the Pulsar Trail XQ50, this is the scope I previously had. The scope worked great, held a zero, and I really enjoyed it. I sold it and got out of the thermal game and realized I missed it too much and am now getting back into it.

I have not looked through an APEX so I cannot compare it to that but the Trail XQ50 seems to white wash a lot on background detail if you were looking up high at any angles. This kind of made it hard to determine heat signatures from longer distances. A lot of times with the trail XQ50 we would have rabbits or antelope running around and it was hard to determine what the animal actually was until it got pretty close. The FLIR PTS units I had used in the past seemed to have better detail on the animal and identifying it, but the background detail was not as good.

Overall the Trail XQ50 was a pretty good unit or so I thought until I looked through a HALO LR. I felt that was going to be really hard to beat, but the price for those hurts the pocket book. Being almost 10K in thermal optics is a little hard to justify with the wife sometimes lol

I had not researched new thermals in probably two years and it seems the market has shifted so much. I had never heard of Bering optics until earlier this week. I appreciate the time everyone has taken to give there input.

Already having a Pulsar Helion for the scanner I think at this point for me having better detail on the animal is going to be key for me on the rifle scope.

I can take it or leave it on the video recording, I don't care much for that anymore. I also leave my scope on standby all night so the start up time would not be much of an issue for me.
 
I also started off with the Apex XQ50. Sold it and went Halo LR. Sold that and went to Trail 2 XQ50LRF. Sold than and now leaning towards the SH and Phenom combo.
I old the Apex because the Halo LR was supposed to be the best. I had a few troubles with mine, and it spent a lot of time on a fed-ex truck in the middle of last season. Nvision made it right everytime, just, slowly.
So, off it went and enter trail 2lrf. I figured what the heck, the apex was great and I liked it. And I thought I needed to make great videos and have a LRF. But, the one trail 2 I got had the same white wash problem when looking at certain situations and the horizon. I tried it with the image boost on, and off, didnt notice a difference at all. Also im right handed, and when pressing buttons with my left hand while shooting/scanning, I would inadvertantly block the LRF with my hand. The LRF is bulky and sticks up out of the foam of my rifle case which is not ideal. I forgot to hit record most of the time, and the streamvision app is mediocre at best.

Sans the SH / phenom combo or the Nox35. In dealing with thermals, I have found out that the more affordable thermals say, $5000 and below, hold their re-sale value better than the higher end stuff. I took a bath on my Halo LR. Some dealers were selling them new for what I sold mine for used.

Personally, the older I get, less seems like more. Smaller lighter weight scope with less options that is clear, and a good scanner that is clear, seems to be the direction Im headed. The Nox35 seems small and tempting, but what could I expect to recover from a $6800 investment if I didnt like it? $56-5800ish??

Im liking kirschs videos, and leaning that way.
 
If you get the SH and Phenom from Night Goggles, check them out and if you aren't happy send them back in the first 7 days since Night Goggles has a 7 day refund policy.

White-washing the screen when looking at the Horizon isn't just a Pulsar issue, it impacts all thermals in some form and was recently discussed in the following thread. The Phenom is a little more sensitive to it than the Super Hogster at this time. You can never get rid of it totally. On the Phenom, running it on the white hot background with the sun icon helps some.

Nvision makes quality thermals, but the part that is hard to justify is for $6800, you could get the Super Hogster, Phenom and the Night Stalker Pro tripod. If given this budget, do you think a person would kill more coyotes with one NOX or the SH, Phenom, and Night Stalker Pro?
 
I have a hogster 25 and thermion xq38. I like them both. I primarily scan with hogster but have it zeroed to put on my ar if I take someone with me. It maintains its zero after being taken on and off the gun. It’s small and light but you would probably need some sort of rail that comes real far back if you we’re gonna put it on a bolt gun. I would say shooting out to 150 yards is about max for hogster 25. I keep it on base magnification with the pip on. The image gets pretty pixelated when zoomed. The thermion is bigger and heavier but sits nice on bolt gun. Thermion image holds up better when zoomed. All the additional features on the thermion work well. For me, the image on the thermion is plenty good to shoot 2 to 3 hundred yards. I don’t think it would be worth the money to go with a 640 core. But I realize people have different budgets than me and hunt different terrain than I do. Long story short, both are quality and worth their price compared to other thermals in my opinion. Just a matter of deciding what features you want to pay for. Haven’t looked through the super hogster but sounds like it may out perform the thermion image wise.
 
I’ve tinkered with multiple NV Scopes and a few thermals. ATN Xsights, Sightmark photons, all wraiths, currently running pulsar rxq30v and xq23v monocular.

One problem I always have is with the small display screens on scopes and trouble being able to focus on the tiny writing and sometimes see double reticles which I assume is because of my astigmatism. If the screens were just a little bigger I feel like it might not be an issue.

What’s the best one for my older eyes? Is the super hogster display pretty clear and larger than what I’ve been using?
 
As DoubleUp wrote well in this post ....

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/for...9425&page=2

The thermal scope display is a small TV screen. If you could use a support to apply next to the device and install the smartphone, you could see, with the wi-fi (if the device has this function), the image of your target on the largest screen of the phone. You could shoot while looking at the reticle much more easier, even with astigmatism glasses, just like you normally watch videos and photos on your phone. Of course this set could be good if you're using a caliber, with muzzle suppressor / brake, with little recoil, like the 223 or 22-250.
 
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I have an astigmatism and wear glasses, and I can see the writing on the screen clearly and only see one reticle provided I have the ocular end of the scope focused correctly. That is true with my scanner (an old Pulsar Quantum HD19A) and my scope (Pulsar Apex XQ50). Seems I read where the Hogster actually has smaller writing, but someone who has one will have to answer that question for you.
 
Originally Posted By: gunslinger81I’ve tinkered with multiple NV Scopes and a few thermals. ATN Xsights, Sightmark photons, all wraiths, currently running pulsar rxq30v and xq23v monocular.

One problem I always have is with the small display screens on scopes and trouble being able to focus on the tiny writing and sometimes see double reticles which I assume is because of my astigmatism. If the screens were just a little bigger I feel like it might not be an issue.

What’s the best one for my older eyes? Is the super hogster display pretty clear and larger than what I’ve been using? The display is very clear but writing is small if you care about the icons, which I rarely look at. I agree with Double UP, if you are seeing double reticles, adjust the dioptic focus. If mine isn't set to my eyes correctly, I will see two reticles as well. Of all the thermals and NV you mentioned, I believe the Hogsters display screens will be as good or better than many of them. Without having you look through them, it is hard to know for sure. Night Goggles has a 7-day return policy. You can always order your thermal through them, and if it doesn't work for your eyes, return it.
 
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