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#3249361 - 07/31/20 09:12 PM Strongest cleaner for barrels
sbranden Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 449
Loc: MD, USA
Been shooting my 243win a LOT. I routinely clean my rifles between load development sessions with Butch's bore shine... soaking, then some wet patches again, soaking, then some wet patches again - then dry - then brush some maybe - then wet patches again, soak a little, wet, dry, till done.

While I've been heating some loads for heavier bullets (mostly 85 HPBT's and 87 V-MAX's this summer, last summer I was working with 95 CT bullets a lot), I've noticed it can be harder to get the barrel clean good.

I wanted to ask everyone's opinion - what's the best product or combination of things to use to remove all the fouling, without being too harsh on a barrel?

Thanks in advance for sharing what works for you.


Stephen

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#3249364 - 07/31/20 09:44 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
spotstalkshoot Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 1763
Loc: so.mn
I don't use a brush for normal shooting cleanups. I use jag and patch, patch is sized so rod Doesn't flex and touch the bore. I have been using a wet patch of accelerator and a wet patch or 2 of carb out. Let sit for 5 minutes and a patch of Kroil. Then the foam wipe out is injected into the bore, patch(kroil) out after 10 minutes-1 hr. Finish with a spray and patch of Hornady one shot cleaner-lube. Wipe out and varget seem to be easy cleanup. Going to try AR comp for same reason. If I think there is a bunch of carbon buildup in front of the chamber throat area I leave a wet patch of Carb out sit there for a couple minutes. I normally do not clean during load development, unless I change brand of bullet or I suspect accuracy is affected.

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#3249405 - 08/01/20 11:12 AM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
DiRTY DOG Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 2765
Loc: West
I've been using Wipe-Out Tactical Advantage lately for all cleaning and it works great. Bores, copper, chambers, AR bolts, it does it all. Tried all the other cleaners, this stuff is really good.


I always run a brush through the bore a few times and it always loosens more gunk than patches alone particularly on factory barrels.
_________________________
Aim small miss small.

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#3249414 - 08/01/20 11:50 AM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 15826
Loc: S. Texas
^^^^^








Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you and what's behind hurts you, look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




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#3249424 - 08/01/20 12:54 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
ackleyman Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8649
Loc: Hickville
HM's pictures tell all.

What ever your thoughts on cleaning, chemicals used, you really will not know what you are accomplishing until you get a bore scope.

Lyman II is a great bore scope. Also, recently I was gifted an $80 Teslong with the 90* angle lens. The Teslong plugs into your phone, lap top, I pad, etc. I used an old lap top.

The learning curve is fantastic to say the least. Each barrel is different, each load with it's particular speed will foul differently.

Shooters make many assumptions about their cleaning methods, and the $80 investment in the Teslong will add barrel life, and much better groups.

Couple of things I have learned:

A. Pro shot bronze bristle brushes are great, they are good for 100 strokes, buy them by the Dozen!

B. Two plastic brushes are great, Issio and Montana Extreme.

C. If you are not using a brush, you are carbon fouling your barrel. At some point, carbon gets so hard, you will not see the slightest amount of grey on a patch.

D. powders foul very differently. Consult the Heat Index Chart, hot buring powders cook the carbon on very fast.

Use a pair of calipers and measure the dia of your brush, get ready for a shock. Brushes need "spring" in them to scrub. When the "spring" is gone, you are just getting exercise.

Copper is easy to deal with, carbon fouling is THE real can of worms!

Vast majority of people do not want a gun cleaning hobby, they just want their barrel clean enough for their desired accuracy. More importantly, they do not want their barrels ruined prematurely from impossible to get out carbon fouling.

When HM"s products do not get a barrel clean, a few products will clean most barrels if they have not been ruined.

A. JB, and Montana Extreme copper cream are about the same, with the copper cream being easier to use. I use both of the above on 4 patches scrubbing back and forth in a short stroking method
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1014782252?pid=331485

B. Flitz bore cleaner is more aggressive for moderate stubborn carbon that tough plastic and bronze bristle brushes will not remove, I can not stress this enough. 4 patches, short stroked, usually gets the job done for regular maintance.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flitz-Gun-Bore-Cleaner-7-6-oz-Bottle-/124218944821?hash=item1cec06ad35

C. For barrels that are really abused, very large cases where you are shooting nearly 100g of powder that is really cooked on, Sinclair makes two products that cuts though the carbon. This was told to me by a shooter that uses a 50 bmg for long range.
https://shop.brownells.com/gunsmith-tool...e2d5a51634b618d

600 and 800 grit to clean barrels with. This is an extreme case, use on rough Savage barrels, or any barrel that is rough making it all but impossible to clean. Use sparingly, and not for habitual use. Get them clean to begin with, then learn the frequency they need cleaning.

I have an old sporterized German 98 in 8mm, and a British 303 whose barrels like beyond horrible, to say the least. I clean them every 20 shots and they shoot a 1" group or less, plenty good enough for deer hunting.


Edited by ackleyman (08/01/20 01:38 PM)

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#3249437 - 08/01/20 02:14 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
JoeyJ Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/01/13
Posts: 166
Loc: North Dakota
Might want to consider using Bore Tech Eliminator or their carbon and copper cleaners sold separately - they do a good job on carbon & copper.

Another thing you can think about is getting your barrel/barreled action cryogenic treated.

When this process was touted 30 years ago I tried it, as several fine benchrest shooters claimed it did improve their accuracy - we are talking less than a 0.100 inch improvement, which can be huge in benchrest.

I sent in several match barrels and saw no improvement, as my skill level was probably such that I wouldn't notice, as I could shoot 0.1020" group on one relay and come back and shoot a 0.310" on the next relay with the same conditions - 100 yard stage - and I felt good about it all.

Nothing changed with the cryo treatment for me using match grade barrels with a well set up benchrest rifle.

Now, I've sent in an AR upper (minus the bolt) and the barrel really resists fouling and cleans up fast - like maybe 6 patches with bore tech and run a nylon brush after the second patch. Previously, it was close to 20 patches or more with 2/3 nylon brush workouts. Not bad but time consuming.

I've used 300 below for my cryo treatments. I have 2 friends that have done the same, one a 223 caliber, the other a 308 caliber and both noticed a significant time savings in bore cleaning. Accuracy improvement? None of us noticed a difference with our loads - not to say someone might - all I can say is cryo didn't negatively effect our accuracy but it did improve our barrels relative to less copper and carbon fouling.

Treatment price is around $100, probably not worth it to most, but it's an option and gamble to see if it works for you.

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#3249450 - 08/01/20 04:23 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
sbranden Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 449
Loc: MD, USA
Wow, a lot of good products and suggestions coming back that I'll need to look into more.

The powders I've primarily been using are IMR-4350 and IMR-4064, with more focus then this year on Reloder 19 and Reloder 17. I just got the 87 V-MAX's flying wonderfully out of my Tikka at 42.0 of RL17, but given this is a faster powder I'm guessing they may be running about 3,125 fps or so. I haven't chrono'd them yet, and I may still try to find one more accuracy node another notch up next year. For now though, I'm pretty happy with it and will probably just load a box or two up and go hunt... see how this bullet performs on stuff in the field now.

Thanks and keep it coming guys - all great input, as always.

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#3249459 - 08/01/20 08:27 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
DAA Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 5253
Loc: Salt Lake City
Keith said it all. That post should be one of the stickies on this subforum. Mods, can we trade it for two or three of the other old ones that have been there forever?

And like HM, my Lyman borescope has led me to use Tactical Advantage almost exclusively too. Moving away from Wipeout. And not to spare the bronze brushes on most of my barrels, either.

Like Keith, I go to the same products he lists when Tactical Advantage, soaking and brushing, doesn't get it done.

Cooked on carbon, abrasives are the way to go. The TA does a good job of not letting it get cooked on if you clean the barrel as often as it tells you to. But if one gets hard carboned, don't waste time with chemicals, start with JB and move towards nuclear options only if needed from there. But use the aggressive stuff if that's what it takes, the barrel will shoot better when you get that hard carbon out.

- DAA

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#3249460 - 08/01/20 08:29 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: hm1996]
K22 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 2250
Loc: Western NC
Originally Posted By: hm1996
^^^^^








Regards,
hm



Impressive stuff. It's what I use also.

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#3249461 - 08/01/20 08:30 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
DAA Offline
PM senior

Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 5253
Loc: Salt Lake City
Here's a post I made a couple years ago about an adventure in hard carbon fouling on one of my barrels. Working through chemical options without much progress before going abrasive and getting it done. Bore scope pics included.

Carbon fouling removal.

- DAA

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#3249467 - 08/01/20 09:49 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
sbranden Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 449
Loc: MD, USA
So this is all pretty much leading to me getting some Tactical Advantage.
I've seen "wipe-out" before, may even have a bottle in my cabinet.

Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out Brushless Bore Cleaner
Sharp Shoot R Wipe-Out Patch-Out Gun Barrel Cleaner

I wonder if this "Tactical Advantage" is just the latest branding of one or some combination of these other Wipe-Out products?

I've definitely used and liked JB paste before also.

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#3249479 - 08/02/20 06:03 AM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
Kenlguy Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 925
Loc: central WA
You guys are really making me rethink how I've been doing it for the last thirty years.

What? Hoppes #9 is obsolete? Say it isn't so!

I guess the first step in my reeducation is to get one of those new fangled bore scopes.

Now on to higher learning!

Oh and thanks very much for the information. This is the very reason I hang out here.
_________________________
Most people's lives pass them by while they're making grand plans for it.

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#3249498 - 08/02/20 11:24 AM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
Brad Phillips Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 1174
Loc: Gilbertville, IA
The new Hoppes #9 doesn’t even smell like the old school stuff from 25 years ago.

I have been using Tactical Advantage and like it.

As usual: great advice on here, thanks guys !
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"No free lunch internet answer can answer that" pahntr760

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#3249514 - 08/02/20 01:48 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
ackleyman Online
PM senior

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 8649
Loc: Hickville
Thanks Dave!

Absolutely an expenditure of money you will never regret!!!

https://www.teslong.com/Rifle-Borescope/Rigid-Rifle-Borescope

I have found that when I am FINISHED shooting at the rifle range, If I push 4 patches of Free All through the bore, carbon comes out easier. i put a sanwich bag over the muzzle and rubber band it on, prior to putting the rifle back in the gun case.

Free All is a very very advanced penetrating oil, much more advanced then Kroil. I am sure there are some other products that will work as well. Key is to let the oil penetrate the carbon and get down in the pores. I have corked barrels for two week intervals that were carbon fouled from end to end, brush after two weeks, repeat up to three times. I revived a Krieger 308 F class barrel to where it looked brand new after the guy shot it 600 times without cleaning it...gunsmith just put him on a new barrel, $50 investment for me that now shoots sub 1/4" groups chambered with a zero freebore match reamer.



I tried these penetrating oils also:



I like shooting over bore cartridges on Coyotes, kill'em real dead, real quick.

I have read where some National benchrest shooters give their barrels a regular cleaning of JB after every 250 rounds to keep their barrels carbon free. The Montana Extreme copper cream is easier to use than JB, does the same thing. 4 soaked patches used on a tight fitting punch type of jag usually gets the job done.

I have found mid size cases that use Varget, R#15, and H4895 some of the very hardest to clean, especially when they have 100 rounds on the barrel.


Edited by ackleyman (08/02/20 02:21 PM)

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#3249574 - 08/03/20 01:02 PM Re: Strongest cleaner for barrels [Re: sbranden]
sbranden Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 449
Loc: MD, USA
Talked to a local gun shop that is usually pretty up on stuff, he said he didn't find Tactical Advantage to be that much better than some of the others... says he would use this now:

Seal 1 CLP Plus Liquid
https://www.brownells.com/manufacturers/seal%2b1/index.htm

Just wonder if anybody had ever tried this product before?

I'll keep searching for Tactical Advantage, but may just have to place an order with Brownells or something if I can't find it locally. Thanks.

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