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#3248428 - 07/17/20 11:27 AM Question about targets for thermals
igor Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 467
Loc: amarillo texas
I'm asking this because I still get slight POI change with my Trail XP50.Only 1.5 to 2 inch max, but that's irritating. I also have 2 Trijicons that exhibit slight poi change but only about half as noticeable. I attribute maybe 50% of the change to the shooter. I'm not claiming to be expert at anything but. For the last 4 years or so I have used reflective HVAC tape for my targets. My question is could the angle of the sun have an effect on what the thermal sees. If I check zero with the sun pretty much on the right in the morning and pretty much on the left in the evening will the target the thermal sees alter? You don't have to remind me of all the nuances and differences in ammo, wind, and slight pressure difference with the way rifle is held can effect poi.
My favorite gun range got shut down recently and I have to drive way out to my hunting area to do testing so I'm just trying to get as specific as possible. In the past wind has been the biggest variable in my testing but I'm wondering if I should be keeping sun angle the same. I enjoy shooting a little bitty group with a new hand load almost as much as plugging a pig right behind the ear. Go ahead and laugh now.
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#3248433 - 07/17/20 12:07 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Kirsch Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1748
Loc: North Dakota
Originally Posted By: igor
For the last 4 years or so I have used reflective HVAC tape for my targets. My question is could the angle of the sun have an effect on what the thermal sees. If I check zero with the sun pretty much on the right in the morning and pretty much on the left in the evening will the target the thermal sees alter?
I suppose it is possible. I haven't noticed but I typically sight in my guns at a similar time, and the sun is typically right behind the target or I do it at night.

I use the method in the video below. This will help get a good aiming point, but I suppose it is still possible the entire reflection would shift. If you are seeing the same directional shift in the Trijicon as the Pulsar, then it seems logical this may be occurring. I would then recommend picking a time where the sun is directly behind the target, or do it an night and shine your lights from your truck directly at the target.

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#3248445 - 07/17/20 01:52 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Bowfisher Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 348
Loc: Iowa
IDK if it's the sun angle or not. The main issue is, some thermals don't hold POI worth a crap. No one really talks about it because they aren't testing it correctly and often.

Some thermals will drift 4" at 100 yds just through the zoom range. My FLIR held POI from native to zoom very well, probably should have kept it. My Trijicon seems to hold POI well. Shot some yotes at 300yds last winter. I've seen some Pulsars shift with 20 deg of temperature change. Hopefully they are getting it figured out.

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#3248447 - 07/17/20 02:03 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: Bowfisher]
6mm06 Online
PM senior

Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 8207
Loc: USA

Originally Posted By: Bowfisher
I've seen some Pulsars shift with 20 deg of temperature change. Hopefully they are getting it figured out.

Sad thing is they are getting it figured out on the consumer’s dime, or I should say a huge wad of $100 bills. Kind of reminds me of the other post recently where Pulsar refuses to send units to specific prostaff people for testing and review.

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#3248464 - 07/17/20 06:05 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
JTPinTX Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 1032
Loc: Wellington, TX
I don't use HVAC tape, mainly I use just plain old aluminum foil taped to the target. There have been a couple of times that I have had an odd combination of sun/heat that I think has thrown things off a bit. Mainly, shooting east at around 10am right into a hot sun. I have had a sketchy result from that a couple times.

My range faces east, so I get varying degrees of into sun, overhead, or sun behind me, but not really right/left.

I think a true heat (or cold) source like a hand warmer gives a little more stable target, but honestly I don't do that very often. I did catch the hand warmers on sale at the end of season last year and got a bunch cheap, but aluminum foil is faster and easier.

The last couple days I have pulled the Thermion off my Grendel and rezeroed it on my 556. I wanted something cheaper to shoot thinning out these coons. I will go out either tonight or tomorrow night for sure. Can't pull an all nighter though because I have to pour concrete in the morning. The bow hunters out at my BIL's lease said they saw a sounder of 40-50 pigs last Saturday morning. I may look for them tonight too.

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#3248466 - 07/17/20 06:50 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
igor Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 467
Loc: amarillo texas
In all this heat I have been letting the scopes sit out and warm then turn on and shot with same sun angle. Last time out everything was dead on. Stay on those coons Jeff. I don't usually shoot them but I finally caught one on camera messing with a coon proof feeder and I cant have that. I've been whittling down a pretty big sounder just south of your place Jeff. My new NODS is a big help.
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#3248472 - 07/17/20 08:08 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: JTPinTX]
Kirsch Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1748
Loc: North Dakota
A heat source like a hand warmer, throws off a significant bloom making the target a lot larger than it actually is.
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#3248514 - 07/18/20 01:30 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Krockus Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/20/20
Posts: 116
Loc: USA
Question of why does one have to site in on lowest setting..If the point of impact suppose to be the same through the power range what is the reason behind that..If impact point going to change then why have magnification anyway if bullet is not going to go where aim at when change the zoom..Just trying to learn as much as can about thermals. Dan

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#3248536 - 07/18/20 09:36 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: Krockus]
Kirsch Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1748
Loc: North Dakota
Originally Posted By: Krockus
Question of why does one have to site in on lowest setting..If the point of impact suppose to be the same through the power range what is the reason behind that..If impact point going to change then why have magnification anyway if bullet is not going to go where aim at when change the zoom..Just trying to learn as much as can about thermals. Dan
I asked Boris from Bering the same question, and here was his answer.

You are right, the scope holds zero no matter what the magnification setting is, especially because Hogster's reticle patterns are written inside the core (engine) and their superposition on the image also occurs in the core itself. Therefore, the Hogster zeroing is possible at any magnification. The Instruction manual recommendation regarding zero at 1X is given for the below listed reasons:

1. This is a tribute to tradition and has come since the times when cores has to produced an image, but reticle was superimposed at the image through a separate processor-converter and both were more conveniently synchronized and processed at native optical magnification with 1X point of aim.

2. At a higher digital zoom the reticle sometimes may visually looks slightly shifting thanks to the pixel size increase caused by scaling of electronic zoom. In reality, the reticle does not shift and remains at the target. This visual effect never occurs with original 1X point of aim.
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#3248562 - 07/19/20 11:13 AM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Krockus Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/20/20
Posts: 116
Loc: USA
Yep,I just got done resight in the 20 to use 39s instead of 32 and I really just had to bump over to the left a bit and was shooting perfect..I turned power up to 3 and adjusted the focus and hitting cold soda cans at 140 yards.. I do have another question, I noticed your sight in video Kirsch that your WE was in cm. mine are in inches is there a setting control to change it to metric.. Dan

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#3248571 - 07/19/20 01:01 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: Krockus]
Kirsch Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1748
Loc: North Dakota
Originally Posted By: Krockus
Yep,I just got done resight in the 20 to use 39s instead of 32 and I really just had to bump over to the left a bit and was shooting perfect..I turned power up to 3 and adjusted the focus and hitting cold soda cans at 140 yards.. I do have another question, I noticed your sight in video Kirsch that your WE was in cm. mine are in inches is there a setting control to change it to metric.. Dan
I have one of the first Hogsters produced, so my firmware is very old. It is at Bering being updated as we speak. My version didn't have an option for anything besides cm. I will have to check when it comes back from Bering. There wasn't a setting in mine to change from metric/imperial.
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Korey Kirschenmann
Night Goggles - Pro Staff

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#3248575 - 07/19/20 01:24 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Krockus Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/20/20
Posts: 116
Loc: USA
Mine are like almost an inch per click movements. 0.0 and 2 clicks takes me to 1.7 inches. I am zeroed perfect at a 100..The W.E is perfect and I'm an inch high at The 100 mark. Not sure if supposed to move less than that per click or what..I believe in video yours was 1 cm per click. Dan

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#3248582 - 07/19/20 03:57 PM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Kirsch Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1748
Loc: North Dakota
On my video, the increments advance by 2.4cm which equates to about .9" in. It talks about this in the Zeroing section of the Hogster manual. On the 25, it is 1.34" per value.
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Night Goggles - Pro Staff

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#3248606 - 07/20/20 08:17 AM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: igor]
Krockus Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 06/20/20
Posts: 116
Loc: USA
What are blind pixels correction and when should it be done..Dan

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#3248613 - 07/20/20 10:20 AM Re: Question about targets for thermals [Re: Krockus]
Kirsch Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 1748
Loc: North Dakota
Originally Posted By: Krockus
What are blind pixels correction and when should it be done..Dan
If you start having little spots that don't go away when the scope NUCs. It will look like a little pin-prick. So if the background is black, it would be a tiny spot of white that never goes away. You go into the blind pixel area and select it, and the spot should disappear. I haven't had any on mine so far, but I have seen it on my Pulsars before. You never have to do it if you aren't seeing these little artifacts.
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