Trail poi and 2nd season setup

Oakhill

Member
I bought a trail xq38 last fall and hunted all winter, my first time hunting in the dark. I had quite a bit of action and now I'm totally hooked! At first I thought I'd just get by scanning with the gun until I could spend more on a scanner. After a few times out I came up with using a swivel seat and monopod and It worked very good. I put my elbows on my knees and am more than stable enough to shoot coyotes at 100 yds which seems to be the average spot they come in to. Missed a few around 200 and some that I killed were not hit where I was aiming. Then I did some testing and found out it doesn't hold zero at all. Was off 12" at 200 so no wonder I didn't hit any of those. It moved 3/4" every 15 minutes but after 45 min I was pissed enough I just put it away.

Has anyone sent their trail in since they discontinued them and what did you get back?
I don't see any scanner or scope they offer in the same price range that I like.
Has anyone got a refund instead of a replacement?
If I could get a refund I could just buy a hogster and continue hunting the way I have been. Or would it be worth the money to use a scanner and tripod? Was thinking trade it in for a scanner then buy a hogster to shoot with and a tripod and be setup like everyone else does it. That's way more than I ever planned on spending.
 
From others on PM who sent their scopes in, it sounds like they were getting or waiting on the Thermion XQ38s or Thermion XQ50s. I highly doubt they will move someone to a Trail2 LRF XQ50 due to the drastically different retail pricing, and they aren't available yet from everything I have been told.

As for your scanning method, good job finding something that works for you. I have used lots of different options trying to scan and shoot, but I highly recommend having a scanner and scope separate if at all possible. I realize it is a lot of money. However, a person has the potential of missing out on seeing so many coyotes when you are scanning with a rifle scope, plus the fatigue of constantly moving around looking through the scope, and 3rd the hazard of pointing at objects that you don't want to shoot at. In my opinion, the scanner is the most important piece of thermal night hunting. A person could shoot with digital night vision if budget was an issue but you first have to spot them, and that is were a thermal scanner shines.

It is way more money than a lot of people planned on spending but once you see that hot object coming at you in total darkness, it is really hard not to be hooked.

A set of Gen 3 binos are 7-10K+, so it isn't just thermal that is expensive.
 
Welcome to the forum, in a similar position. I can't predict what they will do but I have heard of a few getting refunded. I can tell you I was just told by Sellmark the availability of the trail 2 is a complete unknown at this time. Fwiw I have had zero luck getting anyone by phone since the virus.
 
I would get on the website fill out a return form and get it sent in ASAP. I would be content with an xq thermion or replacement trail as the new ones seem to have corrected most of the Poi shift.
 
I bought a Trail XQ50 LRF this spring. Some very thorough testing in the first 2 weeks showed me it wasn't holding zero. Mine was moving up to 6"-8" at 200 yards. I sent it back since it was brand new and my dealer refunded my money, then put me on the list for an XQ50 Thermion. I had to wait 7 weeks for the Thermion but got it in last week. It is mounted in an American Defense Recon mount, and so far it has been holding zero like a champ. I tested it pretty hard last week and have no issues trusting it at this point.

I have no idea what you should do since you have had yours that long. I wouldn't know how to deal with Pulsar direct on it. I'm glad I figured out the issues with mine right from the beginning and had a dealer that took care of dealing with Pulsar for me. I will miss the rangefinder on the Trail, but am glad I swapped in the Thermion. I really like it.
 
I sent my third trail back this spring. All 3 had poi issue. This time they told me that their testing didn’t show any poi issue but offered to send me a replacement trail. I strongly declined, since this was 3rd one with same issue. Used it all winter and I know for a fact the poi was shifting. After a little back and forth, they agreed to give me credit for value of scope. I opted for the thermion xq38. Couple weeks ago, I get email saying 5lb package is enroute for pulsar. Gotta be my thermion!! Right??!! Lol nope. They sent me another trail. Pulsar representative Said it was an error and they sent me a shipping label to return it. I’m told that i’m in Line to get the thermion as they become available. All in all, customer service has been very accommodating. Just hope this thermion won’t have any problems.

I would go to their website and fill out return request and then they’ll send you a return authorization. That’s the way to get the ball rolling.
 
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Thanks guys. I looked at the thermion xq38 more and I think that would be a pretty nice scope. Looks like the same fov and almost as long battery life as the trail. Will just have to see what they say but hopefully I can get traded for one. I bet they could really be delayed now with the sickness. Anyone heard anything when they expect to get them in now?
 
Thermion XQ38's have just barely started shipping a very few units to dealers. From what I understand lots have been pre-ordered as well. I imagine anyone ordering one at this point is going to be several months back in line. Just guessing.
 
Yea that’s what I’m thinking. Pulsar couldn’t give me any kind of approximate date. I really don’t need it right away anyway.
 
I'm one of the ones who got a full refund for an Trail XP50. Went Trijicon and I'm pleased and confident when I pull the trigger.

Facts are facts... their thermals (Pulsar) have a shifting zero problem, some minor, some major.

I've read where some Thermion users have had various problems but I have NO firsthand knowledge and apparently it's nowhere near as bad as the Trail series.

There's BIG MONEY in the thermal game, too bad it has effected consumer ethics. Sellmark and Pulsar both know the problem exists yet they are both happy to kick the can down the road, as evident by some being on their second and third replacement units.

Then you have folks in the industry that defend them... again, money and ethics.
 
Very well said Bowhntr, Pulsar is criminal in my book.

Oakhill fwiw I finally spoke with Pulsar CS. After two trails and now a Thermion that wouldn't hold zero I demanded a refund but was denied. I was basically forced into "upgrading" to a trail 2 with no known availability date.

The only way I'll be night calling this season is if I get the replace and am able to sell it before November. After my two seasons of experience I ethically refuse to put a Pulsar on a rifle even if it keeps me from my favorite pastime.
 
Given Pulsar is restarting the 3 year warranty period owners should be pretty well protected.
After being on my 3rd trail xp50 as well as my hunting buddy being on his 2nd the best advice I can give is don't test them in direct sunlight. The only common sense explanation I can come up with is the black scope draws much more heat in the daylight and causes more poi shift. Turn the scope on and let it warm up maybe five minutes before testing it and don't shut them off in between stands. We started doing this last year and we never had any significant poi shift. The only time it shifted was in direct sunlight it went up maybe 3 or 4 inches but that evening after got dark it was right back on again and stayed there. I don't think ours moved more then an inch throughout the winter temperature swings. Always shoot groups as well. After your rifle sits for a week or two the fouling can change and it can cause it to be off a misleading amount on the first shot.
 
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Good tips varminter, reminds me of my grandpa's tractor. First you have to tap the starter, then open and close the gas tank and there's a certain way to turn the key! Haha if I left my Thermion on between stands it'd be dead by the second.

I just don't feel very well protected when the product they sell you doesn't work and they replace it with another product that doesn't work. Then the replacement replacement doesn't work plus they charge you for the newer models. Just my view.
 
Very frustrating. After missing and having bad hits I started checking before going out and it was off every time. I shot a lot of groups trying to figure out what was going on. Knowing now I think you would have to replicate the exact conditions to when you sighted in to be on. Not really possible goin from the house at 70 to 0-20 outside for 45min-hr then in the warm truck for how long to the next stand. Really only good for about 75 yds or closer for a confident shot.
 
I call it Pulsar University, it's where coyotes get a full education.
I often wonder if Pulsar is actually a front created by PITA to save coyotes.
 
We set ours outside and let them cool to outside temps before testing as well. Only had one unexplained missed last year that looked good on video. The last coyote we killed last March was 360 plus yards and we shot at the same time and we both hit him. I assume all these scopes have had the latest update?
 
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I know it must be very frustrating to have those POI shifts. I would be pulling my hair out too. As v223 indicated for some reason trying to sight-in for me in bright sunlight always makes my rifle shoot 3 or so inches higher than normal. I'm using the Apex XQ50, and it hasn't been known for POI shifts, but I learned to never check zero in bright sunlight. I always wait until sundown or dark and it is fine. I haven't had to adjust it more than one click in 20 months of use. To be fair though we don't hunt in those temp extremes that some folks encounter.

My hunting buddy had two Trail XQ50's and never had any POI shifts, but we always sighted-in late evening or dark with those as well. He never was satisfied with either scope as the picture didn't begin to compare to my Apex XQ50. He is now shooting a Thermion XP50, and hasn't had any problems so far with it.

The Pulsar has worked well for me. I personally killed 60 coyotes this year with the Apex XQ50 and with very few misses out to 400 yds. My buddy killed another 25 with his Trail and then the new Thermion this spring. They let him upgrade to the Thermion XP50 and gave him full value for his Trail XQ50. Neither of us can complain about their CS or scopes, but we're just two people out of thousands.
 
My primary coyote amd pig gun is a 6.5 Grendel I built off a billet upper/lower using good components. One bullet it likes is the 95 VMAX and it shoots them very consistently into 1/2-3/4 MOA. The rifle does not shift zero around either. With a good optic it stays put day in and day out.

My daytime scope is a Vortex Viper Gen II PST 2-10x32 with MIL adjustments. For night hunting I am using the XQ50 Thermion. Both are mounted in American Defense Recon QD mounts that are known for having a good return to zero.

Both last week and this week I have been testing hard. Hot temps (last few days it has hit 105-108 here), plus some more moderate temps as well. I have tested in blazing mid-day plus cooler evenings and mornings. Obviously I haven't had any temps under 75 degrees or so to test in. Swapping around back and forth from daylight to thermal, checking 100 and 200 yard zeros. Shooting one or the other 2, 3, or 4 times a day. I have to say I have been impressed with how well everything has held zero. Nothing other than very minor shifts that are easily explained by mirage or my somewhat hit or miss shooting form. I have not seen anything I felt was the fault of either optic or the mounts.

For sure this Thermion is radically different than my XQ50 Trail was as far as holding zero is concerned.
 
Originally Posted By: JTPinTXFor sure this Thermion is radically different than my XQ50 Trail was as far as holding zero is concerned. This is very good to hear.

Originally Posted By: P&YThe only way I'll be night calling this season is if I get the replace and am able to sell it before November. After my two seasons of experience I ethically refuse to put a Pulsar on a rifle even if it keeps me from my favorite pastime. P&Y hunts in ND as I do. I am not saying other parts of the country aren't cold, but ND is towards the extreme when it comes to cold. It will be good to get reports as the weather changes on how well the Thermions and eventually the Trail2 will hold up from a POI perspective to below 0 conditions. For now, Pulsar has said no to send me (Night Goggles) units to test, and that is very unfortunate to hear.
 
Thanks guys. Im wondering if I sent it in now I might not get anything back for quite awhile. Could be Dec-Jan before they get caught up sending out the new thermions. Midway says available dec 7. I think I will keep it through this season and would still have over year and a half warranty left. I would like to buy a hogster and a tripod. Shoot with the hogster and scan with the trail until I get something else, then switch and use the hogster to scan? Im sure using a trail scope to scan with is a poor choice but ive never held a real scanner before so maybe i'd get by fine not knowing any better lol.
 
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