Can I please get your thoughts on this

Shooter222

Custom Call Maker
Tuesday night on first set of the night I had a coyote pop up on me. It snuck in just on other side of a hill that I didn’t realize was there. It was first time hunting this spot that my buddy just acquired.
I was scanning with hogster and out of nowhere a coyote was standing 70 yards from me staring at the call 40 yards from it.

I lined up cross hairs and let it fly. I heard the coyote yelp loudly and start spinning , it spun 3-4 times and took off . Never found any blood at all. And didn’t find coyote. This drives me absolutely crazy.



This brings me to my question.

I’m shooting a .223 ar with a 20” barrel. I’m Using Hornady match 75 grain hollow point boat tail bullets. I have had no issues with this round killing coyotes at 125-225 yards this season so far till now. And two sets later the same gun dropped a coyote in its tracks. I shoot my rifle before every night of hunting to make sure nothing is “off”.


QUESTION:
Is the lighter bullet traveling faster more likely to not splash?
Or
Is the heavier bullet traveling slower more likely to not splash?

Also

Hollow point?
Or
“Plastic tipped” style vmax?




Guys this haunts me. I hate watching them spin and run off.
Any advice would be appreciated!
 
The lighter and faster is more likely not to penetrate as deeply before expansion. The heavier slower bullet is more likely to penetrate deeply, but also if too slow may not open up and just pencil through.

Since you have been satisfied with the performance of your setup up to this shot, I'd say it was bad shot placement, probably high gut shot on this coyote. Spinning is usually associated with gut shots.

For me personally, I like light and fast. When using a 223 in an AR format, I shoot either 50 v-max or 50 hp at about 3,100 fps. The shock effect of the v-max or hp seems to result in DRT's more often. I've never had one splash, but lots of people seem to have that problem with the V-Max.
 
I started off using those same(75gr BTHP bullets). Very accurate but after several spinners and runners I changed bullets. I have had much better luck with 55gr Hornady soft points, Sierra 63gr and Sierra 65gr bullets. My advise is to pick a hunting bullet over a target/match type bullet. There are many good ones to chose from.
My favorites are the 55gr Hornadys. They just plain kill coyotes and at 8 or 9 cents apiece, in bulk, are very affordable.
 
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For killing coyotes I’d rather a 55-63 grain ‘soft-point’ type bullet in the 223. The one you used is a heavier ‘match’ bullet. I also don’t like the lighter, extremely frangible prairie dogging types bullets.

Of course any bullet can work most of the time, with good or forgiving placement. Shots on coyotes in MI don’t come easy, takes a long time to erase memories of relatively easy shots or runoffs.

This time of year not after pelts, my favorite is a 243, may not be night legal in MI.

Years ago I shot a coyote with a 6mm, 70 grain ‘match’ bullet, penciled on thru, 2nd shot required.

Under field conditions don’t always get perfect shots, or a lot of time.
 
Slower/heavier less chance of splash. Slow and heavy not my choice, but I shoot for fur. I don't want exits, 3-5" penetration is ideal for me on coyote. Unfortunately even a 22-250 on a leg or just in front of the pelvis can result in run offs.
 
A 75gr HPBT going around 2500fps through the lungs would have dropped that Coyote. Missing your intended location happens on moving targets/quick shots.

Rifle rest position, trigger pull, breath, wind, jitters from coffee buzz, Coyote moves slightly, coupled with excitement.

I use 24.4 grains of RL15 at 2615fps with that bullet
Or 23.1 grains of H4895 at 2640fps (both are 20 inch barrel velocities)

I prefer lighter bullets for Coyote shooting because of the better trajectory. A 50 yard zero with a lighter bullet going fast, typically means you will be dead on again at 200 yards.

The heavy bullet sighted in for 50 yards will be a couple inches low at 200 and drop like a rock after 250.

If you are wanting to try some tipped bullets the 55 grain Nosler BT is an awesome bullet. The 60 grain Vmax "seems" to be an ideal bullet also. I have never tried that one though.
 
Not being sure of exact shot placement in consideration, my experiences leads me to believe that a hunting bullet would have made a lot of difference in your results. I have shot a lot of prairie dogs with all kinds of bullets, including the heavy hollowpoint match bullets like you described. In my experience I would guess that your bullet didn't expand much or enough to transfer a lot of its energy and produce a lot of tissue trauma. Again, this is all 'guestimation'. I noticed on prairie dogs shot with the match bullets that they were slow to expand; broadside shots showed very little expansion. If I happened to shoot one that was on all fours, facing directly towards or away from me, I could see that the bullet had opened up quite a bit more as it traveled through more tissue.

Also, my experience is different than arlaunch; it is not uncommon for a lung shot coyote to spin and run a little ways. Seems like if shooting one broadside there is decent chance it is not gonna be DRT. Quartering or frontal shots tend to result in the most DRT's for me.

As far as coyote bullets go I like the nosler ballistic tips, various softpoints, and 55 grain and lighter hollowpoints. I'll use a vmax if that's all that is available, but I have had results that were not as good with them compared to the others I mentioned. Vmax are great prairie dog bullets, however.

All that being said, there are going to be times when the results just aren't what we intend them to be for what ever reason. Hate it, but I haven't figured out how to beat all the 'gremlins' yet.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I’m sure wish I had a dvr for Hogster. I’ll buy one this summer, once I get back to work. Id like to know if it was me on the shot, dvr seems like it might help .

This summer I’m gonna do some shooting at range and play with ammo a bit.

Maybe just a excuse to buy a 6.5 upper. Lol

Thanks again for everyone’s thoughts.
 
Your prior good experience with the 75 gr match bullets may be because you hit them through the shoulders and dropped them. Broken bones and spinal hits are really the DRT shots. The match bullets may not expand that well if you hit them through the chest (between ribs) so will pencil through (same for farther back hits). I would recommend the 60gr V-Max or the 55 gr Ballistic tip which will hit them a bit harder but expand more reliably to put them down.
 
The only thing I can add is that for years with my .222 I shot Nosler 40 gr BT's and was getting splashes on coyotes I shot within 75 yards or so. I was loading them to about 3400 fps, which was at max for the powder I was shooting.
I quit using that load for coyotes and just shoot prairie dogs now with it. What I can't tell you is if the splashes were a result of too high a velocity with a ballistic tipped bullet at too close a range, or a different combination.
I wish I knew definitively so I could take that piece out of the equation and eliminate it but I don't.
Probably not a lot of help for you other than to know you are not alone!
 
On the 75's, if they're the match bullets I think they are, they aren't intended for hunting. I have a load with some Hornady 68gr BTHP Match bullets that's really accurate in my Colt but not reliable for hunting.

On the 40gr BT's I'm thinking that's a light bullet that's fragile & pushed to max velocities it simply may be opening up too fast to be reliable. Either slow it down some, or bump up to a bit heavier bullet that will penetrate better while expanding. Maybe a 50 or 55gr BT if the purpose is called coyotes. Given the splashes were at close range I'm betting that the bullet was still moving too fast, especially if you found it reliable on yotes at longer ranges.
 
Yes.
I am/was shooting White Box Hornady Match - hollow point boat tail 75grains .

I honestly figured hollow point would equal good hunting round.
But I’m learning otherwise.

Years ago I lost a few deer from shooting plastic tipped rounds thru my 50 cal muzzle loader, I switched to same bullet without the plastic tip. Haven’t lost one since .
So- I figured I’d have same response from the 223 .
But I have been wrong.

A few coyotes I have shot with them have had really good results. Tiny entrance and a inch and a half exit hole .
But I’ve had two spin and run as well.

And yes, both of the longer shots have lead to DRT coyotes.
The two spinners I’ve had this season have both been from shorter shots about 70 yards




Thanks Everyone

 
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I was using Hornady 55gr Vmax,I was getting some splash. Sometimes with less than perfect shots, I was getting spinners and run offs. I switched to Hornady 55gr soft points with great success. I may also try some 60gr soft points. Black Hills Ammunition (red box) makes a 60gr soft point. I've been using my .243 lately 58gr Winchester Varmit X. No runners or spinners. Not fur friendly, but I don't save fur any way. Very mangy yotes here in Northwest Indiana.
 
I continue to have great performance from my 20" 1 in 9 twist 223 with the Hornady 50 gr SX. Easy to find a seating depth, even for shorter steel mags. Easy to tune the load, I start them around 3200. Have not had a splash issue, and I know inside 200 yards no exit. Plus these are usually cheaper than tipped bullets.
 
Bullet construction plays a huge role in bullet performance.

Think of this: drop a raw chicken egg on the concrete, then throw another raw chicken egg against the concrete as fast as you can. Notice the difference velocity at impact makes?

Now do the same with a similar sized object, a golf ball. Very different outcome due to projectile construction, right?

Hornaday V-max are more like a raw chicken egg;

Nosler B-tips are more like a soft boiled egg;

softpoints are more like a hardboiled egg;

Mono-metals, like Barnes, are golf balls.

Match grade bullets, may, or may not, expand reliably. Match bullets are not designed for consistent expansion, whereas 'hunting' bullets are designed to expand reliably.

I like Vmax in my 243, not so much in the 22cal.

I like Btips in the 22cal, not so much in 243.

Softpoints usually work well in both calibers.
 
Originally Posted By: K-22hornet.Bullet construction plays a huge role in bullet performance.

Think of this: drop a raw chicken egg on the concrete, then throw another raw chicken egg against the concrete as fast as you can. Notice the difference velocity at impact makes?

Now do the same with a similar sized object, a golf ball. Very different outcome due to projectile construction, right?

Hornaday V-max are more like a raw chicken egg;

Nosler B-tips are more like a soft boiled egg;

softpoints are more like a hardboiled egg;

Mono-metals, like Barnes, are golf balls.

Match grade bullets, may, or may not, expand reliably. Match bullets are not designed for consistent expansion, whereas 'hunting' bullets are designed to expand reliably.

I like Vmax in my 243, not so much in the 22cal.

I like Btips in the 22cal, not so much in 243.

Softpoints usually work well in both calibers. Concrete is a poor example since zero of the projectiles you mention achieve any penetration at all on concrete. They are not designed for that. Anyways nobody is hunting chunks of concrete.

Target material plays as big a role (or bigger role) than bullet construction. A fast 223 40gr Vmax will both splash on concrete AND all punch thru mild steel (ex: 1/4" or even AR500) like a hot knife thru butter, no splashing. Same as a SP or copper solid on steel. But those different bullets will each perform different on game.

I like the 223 40gr Vmax for coyotes, it puts them down hard. One of the mods here uses it extensively and he puts down more coyotes with it than about anybody else here.

Yet so many avoid 223 40gr Vmax and ALL Vmax due to alleged "bullet splash". I've never seen it. I have raked the brisket with a bad shot and tore open the fur or blown off legs. I have hit the front leg joint dead on that made a mess. Those are not splashes.

Somebody post up some pics of all these alleged splashes from light Vmax bullets. I would like to see some, since I never have seen it.

I HAVE seen lots of videos and pics of bad shots, gut shots, and coyotes that were shot waaay too far back, perhaps still barely hitting the rear edge of the lung or liver which so often causes spinning and runners. It seems that is what happened to the OP based on his description.

A spinner and runner is most likely a "gut shot". If you shoot a coyote and it spins/runs for a few seconds or 5 or 10 seconds it's because you hit it too far back. Will it still die? Probably, but it's not pretty. Camera men on hunting TV shows know to quickly zoom waaaaaay out on hits like this so viewers don't see spinning and flopping. At the same time instant DRT's result it fist bumps and bada$$ that's how it's done comments.

A lot of people don't know where the vitals are on a coyote and will take offense to what I just said. They think they know, but they don't. Or they don't care. For example, if you regularly shoot coyotes in #6 (either intentionally or by accident), you're going to have regular spinners and runners.
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Or people can't make accurate shots with their gear. This last reason in particular is why so many thermal/night hunters step up to bigger calibers- to compensate for poor shot placement. There, I said another unpopular truth.
 
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